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Former Member
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Rewarding contributions

IIRC This is my first post under this id as i discontinued use of boinc for a 10 months period sometime last year and could not obtain the old id/pwd, so hello (again) to everyone.

Forgive any improprieties or ignorance on my part as 1) I am pretty busy and don't spend any time at all reading up on the projects unless something goes wrong and 2) I am writing this in anger after having seen for the umpteenth time that the points assigned for the correct conclusion of a work unit were only about 40% of what the software claimed for it, and as a direct result in the last week I have been pulling back considerably on the amount of time and resources my system dedicates to working for the community.

From my point of view, the point system and in particular what is claimed vs what is awarded is extremely unfair. We give our systems and (when something goes wrong or manual intervention is required) often enough our time for free: aside from when we are gaming or performing some necessary work, some of use give over all of our systems's resources to medically-targeted distributed computing because of course it's a wonderful cause. Regardless of how many resources we assign to this taks, we do this not only for free, but many of us leave our systems on 24/7 to work on these projects and unlike with some scientific / cryptographic challenges, get nothing whatsoever in return, not even the hope of the chance at winning something. That means that aside from the computer resources and our time we actually fork out money for the power usage and of course we put a constant strain on the hardware, at the very least increasing the chances of hardware failures, and in certain cases actually bringing them about or hastening them, so more money and time for repairs/replacements. We also do this knowing that any benefits reaped will likely be in the form of patentable discoveries and that someone will make sh..edloads of money out of our goodwill. We do this and get absolutely nothing in return. Aside as a showoff piece, especially for great performers, the point system is worthless since you cannot use your points to, for instance, create a free home page, trade or even buy storage or customizations for it, or even just trading points for customizations for our forums post like other projects / sites do. The badges are, of course, completely pointless as we can see well enough what someone dedicates their resources to by their points as often posted about on many a forum / web page.
I skimmed over the info on the system by which points are credited, and just can't believe it. They cannot be used or traded in any way, shape or form and still you deal them out with the same .... thrift ? as if they had an actual monetary value, there's even a cap of 2x the "comparison device", so throwing all the resources of increasingly common, high end 4 cores workstation won't necessarily result in more points for your pc's hard work and your commitment.

Is there an actual rationale for this ?
Is there any impediment to setting up a simple scheme by which you can trade points for things like:

- a customizable, public "home" page with the details of your activities and a picture + some info about the contributor (even with a cap on size)

- getting customization strings, icons, avatars, titles etc. for forum posts

- any other reward system that provides an actual, non-monetary and very inexpensive, but still palpable benefit however small - to the contributor.

Can we not try to work out something fairer to the contributors ?
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Sekerob
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Re: Rewarding contributions

Hi and welcome back

Just covering the technical parts:

The 2 times limit refers to a system from the discontinued UD agent. That Information content is going to get removed soon. With BOINC, the more flops you crunch away the more credits [points divided by 7] are earned. The more cores, the more credit too.

As for your loss of member name/passwords, all you need to do is visit the recovery page and type in the email address that was associated with the account(s). The information will be send there.

cheers
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[Oct 30, 2008 1:44:53 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Rewarding contributions

Darth, I feel you have missed the point.

We are not here for any personal gain. We contribute to help others, to further science, and to save lives.

The rest is just frosting. The techs do what they can to provide baubles to distract and incentivise us, but their time is limited.

I am further disturbed that you seem to have missed the point about World Community Grid only supporting non-profit projects from non-profit institutions, and requiring that all results are released into the public domain. Everybody benefits, and nobody can patent the work done here. Perhaps you have confused World Community Grid with one of the other distributed grid projects out there, with lower standards. Here, there is no money coming in that can trickle down to you. It really is, genuinely, non-profit.

If you want to create a homepage, Google will provide you with a free one. You could use it to attract others to World Community Grid. I know a few members do this.
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Re: Rewarding contributions

We are not here for any personal gain. We contribute to help others, to further science, and to save lives.

Exactly.
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Re: Rewarding contributions

Hi Darth nVidious,
Back to basics. The BOINC credit (points) are based on 'cobblestones', defined in http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Computation_credit

WCG started running the UD distributed computer system in 2004, then added BOINC. We have dropped UD, but still have many vestiges left on the website. Most noticeably, we show WCG points (7 * BOINC credits). But this will soon disappear.

Your post uses the information about the old UD system that we no longer use. We hope to complete the switchover to a pure BOINC site next year. We would have liked to have done it this year, but most of our time is taken up on projects, which means that website changes keep sliding back into the distant future. Right now we are bringing up a new hosting site with much larger servers.
for the umpteenth time that the points assigned for the correct conclusion of a work unit were only about 40% of what the software claimed for it


Could you give us some information from your Results Status page about this? Here is a typical work unit from my Results Status page:
R00177_ 0029b0e7bacd08bf6eac65b582f3776d_ 01_ 001_ 0-- 8.02 hours 85.0 / 67.5 Claimed/ Granted

Lawrence
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Re: Rewarding contributions


Could you give us some information from your Results Status page about this?
Lawrence



hi lawrence

thank you for taking a personal interest, actually i clicked on one at random, so here's one (not the same):

faah4541_ 001740_ MC_ xMut_ md02980_ 05_ 0-- Valid 28/10/08 17:24:39 30/10/08 11:48:30 20.03 330.2 / 111.9

cheers
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Re: Rewarding contributions

I knew i would be making mistakes as i do not have the time to make an in-depth study of all the info available, i apologized in advance for it, i apologize again for any incorrect information i provided in the original post.

one issue at a time and the easiest matter: id/pwd recovery.

after a catastrophic crash and some, limited, data loss last year I was without a fully working system for 2 months, and off the net for about 10 while relocating. of course i closed my contract with my ISP so i had no access to the old email address (i don't use web-based email). It was great in terms of experience gained, these days i use sneakemail so the situation should never repeat, but in the meantime: no old email address, no old id, no old pwd = no access to the old account.

as for the rest -

Financial:

"We are not here for any personal gain. We contribute to help others, to further science, and to save lives."

Forgive me but I think you read "... sh..edloads of money ..." and your mind automatically attached "i want a slice of that" to the sentence. I did not ask for any financial compensation nor want/need any; I did suggest a sample of very-small, possibly desirable, non-financial, not overly burdensome "rewards". you get to see these every so often: you do x work for project y and you get 1 point, with 100 points you get your own avatar in forum posts, with 500 you get a custom {nick,rank,title} etc. I also have no need or want of a "home page" provided by the project (i already have my own) i meant something on the lines of a summary of the projects you contributed to + work performed, with 1 picture and a few lines of custom comment that anyone can see if the contributor desires to have one.

You obviously do see that providing a small incentive to people is helpful in attracting and keeping them, otherwise the points and the badges would not be there (or the graphics -not the screensaver, which has a specific function- in boinc), all you'd need to know is that your units were processed and what their final status was, so why not go a little bit further and make use of those points somehow.

Now don't get stuck on the avatar, title, or page things, They're meant as suggestions only, you could ask what people would like....


Public domain/non-profit:

Are you trying to tell me that if through our efforts, the science team behind one of the projects discovers that new substance x is twice as effective as currently used medications using substance y in performing highly desirable function z, no pharmaceutical company is going to develop a drug using new substance x, or it will do so but charge nothing / production, packaging & delivery (costs in general) only because the project is non profit and the results will be released in the public domain ?

If that is the case I am afraid we live on a different planet and maybe we should alert the seti@home team.

I hope the joke will lighten the mood a bit. guys, i'm not after money.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 30, 2008 4:13:58 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Rewarding contributions

Can you plz describe the computer, OS and if the client is standard e.g. a version downloaded from Berkeley or WCG, 32 bit or 64 bit. I've got a really hard time seeing 330 credit associated with a rig that takes 20 hours to do a FAAH job where mine does them in 5-10 hours and claims half or less than yours. Here are the last 15 from a 32 bit quad:

faah4546_ 000175_ MC_ xMut_ md03790_ 02_ 0-- 628290 Valid 29-10-08 20:20:59 30-10-08 16:03:44 7.08 106.4 / 104.5
faah4545_ 000333_ MC_ xMut_ md03380_ 08_ 0-- 628290 Valid 29-10-08 17:20:30 30-10-08 13:25:32 5.93 89.2 / 89.5
faah4545_ 001344_ MC_ xMut_ md03380_ 03_ 0-- 628290 Valid 29-10-08 16:48:55 30-10-08 08:52:38 5.49 82.5 / 83.2
faah4543_ 001769_ MC_ xMut_ md03230_ 03_ 0-- 628290 Inconclusive 29-10-08 06:30:03 30-10-08 07:22:51 7.27 109.3 / 0.0
faah4543_ 000535_ MC_ xMut_ md03230_ 00_ 0-- 628290 Valid 29-10-08 06:28:53 30-10-08 03:22:16 7.22 108.5 / 111.5
faah4533_ 000010_ MC_ xMut_ md02010_ 05_ 1-- 628290 Valid 28-10-08 20:14:55 30-10-08 03:21:04 8.89 133.7 / 129.4
faah4540_ 000433_ MC_ xMut_ md02950_ 00_ 0-- 628290 Valid 28-10-08 15:26:56 29-10-08 19:23:53 7.94 119.4 / 121.8
faah4539_ 000828_ MC_ xMut_ md02680_ 01_ 0-- 628290 Valid 28-10-08 10:47:55 29-10-08 16:01:09 11.10 166.8 / 170.4
faah4486_ 000163_ MC_ xMut_ md16460_ 0E_ 2-- 628290 Valid 28-10-08 05:19:08 29-10-08 06:30:03 7.03 105.7 / 113.4
faah4519_ 000526_ MC_ xMut_ md21960_ 01_ 1-- 628290 Valid 27-10-08 17:17:46 28-10-08 21:20:06 13.19 198.3 / 201.3
faah4482_ 001380_ MC_ xMut_ md16150_ 00_ 2-- 628290 Valid 27-10-08 23:16:21 28-10-08 19:34:07 8.65 130.0 / 125.4
faah4534_ 000647_ MC_ xMut_ md02220_ 00_ 0-- 628290 Valid 27-10-08 07:27:30 28-10-08 06:09:58 12.80 192.4 / 206.8
faah4534_ 000651_ MC_ xMut_ md02220_ 01_ 0-- 628290 Valid 27-10-08 07:27:30 28-10-08 01:37:40 7.60 114.3 / 120.5
faah4534_ 000106_ MC_ xMut_ md02220_ 08_ 0-- 628290 Valid 27-10-08 07:28:38 27-10-08 23:58:47 5.02 75.5 / 74.6
faah4511_ 000330_ MC_ xMut_ md20010_ 0F_ 1-- 628290 Valid 26-10-08 22:57:21 27-10-08 17:17:46 5.35 80.4 / 85.5

[edit: Rarely watch it, and see a few tough cookies inbetween... but all claims versus credit are in the ballpark]
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WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Oct 30, 2008 4:15:05 PM]
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Former Member
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Re: Rewarding contributions

hi there.

windows xp (32bit) sp3 + all hotfixes available from windizupdate.

amd athlon 64 x2 6000+ (2 cores, 3.015 ghz. but as i hinted at in the op, for the past -week?- it's been throttled down to 1 ghz with 75% processor use in boinc manager whenever there's nothing running aside from boinc and up/downloads, and 50% when in active use, set through local prefs)

4gb ram
windows-managed page file

boinc 6.2.19, downloaded from http://boinc.berkeley.edu

boinc manager settings (local prefs):
10gb assigned to boinc, 90% disk use, leave 1 gb free.
75% page file
memory usage:
use ~25% when in use
use ~75% when idle
leave app in memory when preempted
always networked & use at will, no restrictions

i am not sure how to read the "i am having a hard time"... if you even suggest that i am providing you with false information i pack up and leave on the spot though.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 30, 2008 4:38:25 PM]
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Former Member
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Re: Rewarding contributions

i am not sure how to read the "i am having a hard time"... if you even suggest that i am providing you with false information i pack up and leave on the spot though.

I think Sek probably meant that there could possibly be some kind of issue with the machine which is why it is over claiming credit. I doubt anyone was suggesting you were providing false information.
it's been throttled down to 1 ghz with 75% processor use in boinc manager whenever there's nothing running

Not sure but this could be an issue? If your machine is running at full clock speed when the benchmarks are ran and then throttles down while idle would BOINC claim that the computer was running at full clock speed the whole time and not know? Maybe someone could clarify. I've never seen it before but currently don't have any Athlon processors crunching.
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