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Sekerob
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Please read this thread starting from an explanatory post by Rick Alther and concurrence that HPF2 on UD is not getting it's fair share when running together with BOINC. The same applied to HCMD.

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=10210#79444

There are a few things one can do to speed the HPF2-UD combo up somewhat, but 50/50 will only be achieved playing the multi thread affinity settings or some rigorous 3rd party throttle tool registry tweaks.

Personally, the UD-BOINC concurrent running was never meant and given the former is planned to be phased out, not expecting any developers effort to remove the problem.
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[Aug 11, 2007 4:58:12 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
retsof
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

If strange setups are mentioned, some of us try them out to see whether they work.

The drastic differences in projects are apparent when attempting to run UD/BOINC simultaneously.

BOINC was pushing out GC so fast that I didn't think about doing this then or trying HCMD on UD. Now that FAAH and HPF2 only have longer workunits, there's not much server activity and more time for messing around over here.

If I can push out 36 hours worth of workunits in 24 hours to find a cure sooner, that's what I find worth doing.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by retsof at Aug 11, 2007 9:23:13 PM]
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JmBoullier
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Thank you all for trying to clarify these differences. With your contribution and hints I think I begin to see an explanation.

@Didactylos
JmBoullier, how many cores do you have? That plays a part, also.
I have a P4 HT, and I think that is the biggest difference with cases where UD cannot find room to work.
Because XP is not able to report processor activity correctly with these processors (wrongly reports 50 % inactive if running a single task) UD "thinks" it may run. So it does it... smile

@Sekerob
Please read this thread starting from an explanatory post by Rick Alther
Thank you for this pointer. It helped me to think about what the throttle effect is. However I am sorry for Rick but I think facts show he is wrong on this particular point:
the default 60% throttle for UD basically tells the science app not to push the CPU above 60% (for all apps on the system)

I said that "my" UD is usually throttled at 25 %. If Rick is right it should never run since Windows says Boinc is already using 50 %. But if the UD throttle effect is actually meaning "do not use more than 25 %" it's all fine, and Taskmanager says UD takes 25 %... of the inactive 50 %!
So it seems that the UD throttle means "Do not use more than xx % of the available processor resource". And remembering cases where I had to boost UD to match the stats schedule UD has worked as expected whether I boosted at 50% or 100 %.
Obviously again all this is working for me only because of the wrong processor activity info delivered by Windows for HT processors.

Which leads me to my last comment, to retsof this time.
If I can push out 36 hours worth of workunits in 24 hours to find a cure sooner, that's what I find worth doing

That would be too good to be true, unfortunately. All of us know that an HT proc is not more than a single processor. So I have not really produced the 0:001:18:38:35 per day that my stats show. I have only produced 75 % more statistical units (time or points) than I should, and research has not progressed any faster during that time. smile

Thanks again to all of you. Jean.
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[Aug 12, 2007 4:06:09 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

retsof knows the 36 hours reported v 24 hours that a CPU has to offer is bogus (he just needs to add up the 2 process CPU times shown in the Task manager). Overall there's not a single work unit more pushed out over time except the few percentage points you gain on a HT, which is i think lost again due additional disk i/o and the encryption that UD applies on all its data streams. BOINC running 2 processes on a HT is definitely more efficient, with lots of RAM. WCG actually recommends to set BOINC to 1 if you dont due all the swapping.

There is another post somewhere, where it's also confirmed that the actual HPF2 or HCMD process run on a lower than low priority. As what Scribe also sees, UD will get only a fraction of the time if BOINC, Grid Republic or other regular low priority process runs.
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[Aug 12, 2007 6:42:53 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
retsof
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Both BOINC and UD are incrementing wall clock seconds correctly in real time, even though each only has 50% of the CPU. That could be where the points inflation is coming from.
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

...strange, when I look at mine the UD is incrementing one for one ok (as it is wall clock) but the Boinc is incrementing one second for 2 seconds elapsed...in other words a 6 hours CPU is taking 12 hours wall.
[Aug 12, 2007 1:55:19 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
retsof
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

...strange, when I look at mine the UD is incrementing one for one ok (as it is wall clock) but the Boinc is incrementing one second for 2 seconds elapsed...in other words a 6 hours CPU is taking 12 hours wall.
Never mind. Today is an even day. Yesterday was an odd day. Huh!

Yes. Mine is doing something similar this morning.
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confused Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Hi All,

I am a new member to WCG, but have noticed some rather crappy behaviour from the BOINC software.

For now I will only be using UD until BOINC comes up with a better CPU throttle. My CPU when I set BOINC to 50% does 100% for a couple of seconds then 0% for a couple of seconds. This is rubbish.

My CPU fan goes nuts - 2 seconds on then 2 seconds off and I cannot leave my computer to behave like that.

WCG, please ask for a fix to BOINC software before you make us transition off of UD.

50% throttle setting should be 50% of mu CPU time continuously and should not be stuffing up my CPU power control software by turning itself on then turning itself off.

If I did not have UD, I would have to stop contributing to the WCG.

Comment: I am reasonably sure that by promoting BOINC to the average user the WCG is losing a lot of new signups who become frustrated very quickly with their CPU fan noise.

The WCG is a fantastic initiative and I hope this BOINC issue is not causing people to drop out.
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Hi Troy Boy,
The BOINC throttle is a joke, admittedly. The solution is to leave BOINC at 100% and use ThreadMaster to control the applications.

The general problem is that throttling should be an OS level routine. Programming it into an application is difficult and wrong-headed. IBM developed a good throttling system to use with UD applications, but it is difficult to implement. I do not know when BOINC will improve its throttle.

You have hit on my pet peeve. I originally argued against putting a throttle into the UD applications, because it approached the problem from the wrong end. Throttles should work with the OS rather than with a specific application. I have been surprised at how well the UD throttle has worked out, with only a few problems.

Lawrence
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Re: Announce upcoming projects are BOINC only

Hi Troy Boy,
The BOINC throttle is a joke, admittedly. The solution is to leave BOINC at 100% and use ThreadMaster to control the applications.



Threadmaster works great but has no GUI...I don't really think most run-of-the-mill users will be inclined to use it. Are there any GUI-based CPU throttling applications?

I think perhaps WCG should hold off on pulling the plug on the UD Agent download unless the BOINC throttling is improved or there is an easier CPU throttling application...?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 15, 2007 1:12:46 AM]
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