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Beta 5.01 with GUI

Hi there,

I was afraid there will be no new beta app results to crunch considering only 500 units and possible number on cruncers. Even the beta forums is quite dead...

Anyway, I got 3 results with beta 5.01 application.
Graphics works just fine (BOINC Studio 5.4.9 based on UCB BOINC 5.4.9).
It takes only extra 14 MB of RAM, good job there.

There is a small* screen with graphics, that gets updated during the computation progress as supposed...as far as I can tell.
By small I mean - it is not zoomable as BOINC GUI usually is on BOINC projects. I'm running 1600x1200 for years and this small GUI window is less than 1/4 of screen.
for example CPDN has wonderful GUI which looks marvelous on large screens and projectors - but it must be zoomable in order to bring this.
First suggestion - make it zoomable.

This small parts of GUI, where picture actually is, is moving inside the windows every couple seconds. I guess it simulates a real BOINC screensaver, good so far. But it is really irritation when opened via "Show graphics" buttion in BOINC manager.
I suggest keeping that behaviour when it is run as screensaver, but disable this irritating moving behaviourr/feature when called manually.

Conslusion: good that WCG is bringing GUI to FAH application, it's a plus. I find it both good looking and somehow informative (albeit not as informative as Rosetta always was).

A bit Off-topic but I wanted to express it months ago. Since all points are still valid, here we go. Perhaps somebody reads the forum...
WCG was never trully a BOINC project as it lacks even basic BOINC features. No BOINC forum, pages - far from standard BOINC pages - do not support Opera broswer, computers becomes sluggish on WCG downloads (bad wrapper implementation?), no duplicate user names allowed so users must choose different user name than on rest of the 30+ BOINC projects etc.
Much to do to become a BOINC projects in my opinion.
Don't take me wrong...I appreciate your initiate in DC community (it's not a grid, btw). Just wanted to express how BOINC users consider semi-BOINC projects and what is missing.

Cheers,
Honza
[Sep 7, 2006 6:20:33 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

The things you list aren't requirements for a BOINC project at all. It would be nice if WCG was a little more like a standard BOINC project, and there are a few parts of BOINC that WCG have changed or omitted - but not the ones you complain of.

Your download complaint in particular is totally unfounded. Downloading is done by BOINC, and by BOINC alone. The only possible difference is that WCG uses a BOINC feature that many other BOINC projects ignore - namely SSL encryption of downloads.

Duplicate usernames are generally a bad idea under any circumstances. No idea why Berkeley chose that route. And the forum? Well, you're here, aren't you?
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uplinger
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Honza,

Thank you for your response and contributing in the Beta.

The 500 units of work actually mean 1500 workunits are sent out as it follows the standard distribution policy that is run on our BOINC projects.

The reason there is not a zoom is because of the template being used that shows the logo's without distortion. I have put your suggestions down about the graphics so that we can review them later for improving on them.

Thank you again,
-Uplinger
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Thanks uplinger for putting zoomable feature to the list. I'm sure more users will appreciate it.

I'm familiar with Work Unit, Results, Replitation, Quarum Daily Quota and other BOINC related stuff (that is mostly invisible on WCG as it is limited BOINC project).
My point was - wow, only couple results for testing for such a large project? They will be done within couple of hours. I guess I have been wrong in my estimation there.
Usually - on BOINC project - there is a quick feedback among testers and the team...or at least I'm used to it on BOINC. If there was BOINC forum, it would be different...WCG would have been able to attract more testers.
I hope more feedback from users is comming...or there are other ways?

Didactylos,
things I required are not neccesary for those install&omit users.
A standard navigation menu (there are a lot of feature omitted), standard view of BOINC database (users, hosts, workunits, results etc) plus the missing BOINC forum is something that BOINC users miss there.

I know that BOINC handle downloads but the lagging of computer is only on WCG. It's not that computer is slow (it is a fast Core 2 Duo computer with pelnty of RAM, BOINC running from ultra-fast i-RAM etc.). Perhaps the SSL solution.

Duplicate users names might not be a good idea. Definitely not on single project (e.i. non- or preBOINC). But once you enable duplicate names, you can let the user having same name on every project. I'm not much into statistics (where a different name on each project makes a real mess) but having same login/password, one personality etc.
And when you come to a project, where your name was taken by a non-BOINC user...try to take look at it from participants view.

Why Berkeley chose that route? I think because unique 32-byte semi-random identification was used before (erlier versions of BOINC).
During the transition from web resitration to a more automatic procedure done by BOINC manager upon installation, there was no need for it any longer.
Now, users needs a table with evrey project and each needs a column of user and password in order to log-in to projects when some disallow unique names.

The question can be put the other way round - why WCG doesn't allow duplicate names? Are user names used in internal databases and it doens't used some non-personal identification internally?

Forum. Yeah - I'm here. It doesn't asnwer my question - why WCG doesn't support Opera while every other BOINC project does? It's yet another aspect that makes WCG less BOINCish.
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Damn, no edit function?
Where is the simple post replay button? Or reply to this thread?

Anyway, I can't add WCG to BAM! (Account Manager Systems) because no duplicates names allowed.
This means - once somebody choose your nick from any of the 30+ projects (and the numbers is growing), you will never have complete list in AMS.

There are more reasons...but that's jsut another one when WCG doesn't cope with BOINC standards.
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Sekerob
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Hi Hon_za, welcome to the World COMMUNITY Grid......which is not a real BOINC website, but a DC where 80% of the members crunch on UD Agent and 20% on BOINC, where WCG is in gradual transition.

There seems to be a new wind blowing, lately some, absolutely only some new members coming in and lifting there leg and spraying the first tree in sight.....does not work......any knowledge u have to add is welcome but bring it to us members in a COMMUNITY tone and acquaint yourself with that mixed UD / BOINC forums COMMUNITY.

thank u.
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Sep 7, 2006 5:07:11 PM]
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

smile
Several months ago Didactylos pointed out that our website failed the W3C Validation test at http://validator.w3.org/

It was quite a surprise since I use Firefox and had not noticed the problems. I expect that this is why we give Opera problems. Eventually we shall get it all corrected. Our current priorities (in no particular order) are debugging HPF2, implementing BOINC graphics, updating statistics to show active members and devices, and language support for Spanish, Chinese and Japanese.

Lawrence
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

I think, while it mostly works in Opera, there may be some issues with the Javascript. Part of my proposal to make it all compliant included the removal of all the unnecessary Javascript. It doesn't do anything that can't be done with pure html.

And on the username issue: actually, BOINC doesn't care much about usernames. The way it identifies a particular user is using the CPID (cross-project identifier) which is based, not on your username, but on the email you use to register with. Email addresses should be unique, and this method allows stats sites to group together all the statistics of a particular user while ignoring the username. WCG did have a few problems early on with their CPID imlementation, but I understand they have all been fixed ages ago.
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smile Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Sekerob,
thanks for the welcome and even some polite suggestions smile

Well, there were transitions from SETI classis and CPDN classic over to BOINC, which I'm familiar with.
SETI did a hard cut which was a good choice, IMHO.
CPDN classic is still alive (both the site and aplication) but it became minor project which supports Open University course etc. The classic phpBB forum remains but it mostly discuss BOINC version today; a lot of themes from classic (mainly climatology are still of use). It also serves for moderators, admins and core members to discuss some internal matters (we need a place to gather and discuss CPDN/BBC or Seasonal projects).
But CPDN has full-featured BOINC sites; classic forum is just another way to inform members in case BOINC server goes down for example.
People are free to choose from standard BOINC forum which they are familiar with and/or participate to classic forum.

BOINC has one big plus. It connects users account, forum and BOINC database into one single piece. So, when somebody ask for a help, it can be easily look what machine(s), OS he/she is running, what errors it gave etc.

I'm not familiar how WCG plans to do the transition.
Simply suggesting people to install BOINC instead of UD doesn't work for me. If it eventually becomes full-featured BOINC site, it can be considered as BOINC project. It may look different, use branded logos, skinds etc...each BOINC project has some unique color scheme etc.

I guess there was good reason why not become a real BOINC project and do gradual transition to new site over the year or two.
This way, lots of knowledge from BOINC community is not accessable as they don't want to go to non-BOINC sites...simple some basic tools are missing on website.
(if it is due to stats generated so far, SETI took classic numbers and put them into users profile).

I'm really interested why WCG has no BOINC site. It's quite a large project so I guess it's not the lack of manpower nor hardware.
Or it is on the to-do list so only patience is needed...
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Re: Beta 5.01 with GUI

Didactylos,

I'm glad to hear the both Opera and usernames issues were already addressed.
Any outcome from past discussion?
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