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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Surely the work units can be broken up into more managable chunks.
I have a 3.0GHz machine, and right now I'm averaging about 20 hours per work unit. The one I'm currently working on looks like it will be done in about 48 hours. I worry about people who have computers that are a couple of years old, or who don't leave their computer running 24/7. Some of these work units could take weeks to be returned. The whole point of these distributed processing programs is that any computer - big or small - can make a contribution. If someone sees that it's going to take weeks to complete a single work unit, how much of a contribution are they going to feel like they're making? How much processing is going to get thrown away when someone uninstalls the program after trying it out for a couple of days? Personally, I think these work units need to be made much smaller - somewhere in the neighbourhood of 5-10 hours worth of processing. For those that don't like to leave their computer connected to the internet 24/7, you should build in the ability to download more than one work unit at a time. Just my two cents. |
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jochrupp
Advanced Cruncher Germany Joined: Nov 17, 2004 Post Count: 58 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Agree! Problem: No admin will read / respond to this!
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Try to pull the plug on your computer while processing - you will find that no work is lost.
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Try to pull the plug on your computer while processing - you will find that no work is lost. Thanks for sharing .. but I think you must have misunderstood what I was saying. I never meant to imply that work was being lost when people shut their computers down. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Unfortunately I doubt work units can be made any smaller as each encompass a single protein. When proteins fold each and every amino acid contributes to its characteristic folding pathway - therefore the whole peptide is required for the calculation. A change to a single amino acid in even the largest of proteins can render it inactive and alter its folding characteristics - the basis for many diseases. This has always been the problem in determining how proteins fold and their shear size requires such high computational requirements.
Some useless info on folding pathways for those interested... A peptide is a set of linear amino acids - primary structure. Peptide regions fold into distinct motifs or shapes: alpha helicies, beta sheets, aba barrels etc - secondary structure. This is also determined by disulphide bridges that are formed between cysteine residues within the same pepdite. The overall shape for a single folded peptide is termed the tertiary structure. Between seondary and tertiary structure an event termed hydrophobic collapse occurs where all water-hating regions of the peptide are forced to the inward region of the protein and all water-loving amino acids are positioned to the outside of the protein. This event may be spontaneous however may be aided by helper proteins called chaperones - not analysed in this project. Some folded proteins also contain multiple domains - regions of grouped tertiary structure or may comprise of two similar proteins or subunits that function as one - quarternary structure - also not analysed in this project. Considering that combinations and permutations that are possible for each peptide, I am suprised how efficient Rosetta is in obtaining a result. I just hope patience prevails and the team fix the agent soon... |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
20 hours is a pretty big chunk of time, but to get a perspective on things, download a program called prime95.
----------------------------------------It is a distributed processing program to discover new prime numbers. (for the benefit of better encryption) Etimated time per work unit on my AMD athalon XP 1800+ was more than 3 months at 75% usage. Mind you the numbers tested are up to 23,790,000 digits long (even higher is likely) [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 22, 2004 11:58:10 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Cant remember exactly where it was but one of the links explains that the expected time is ~ one week of computer time per work unit (whatever 1 week is)and this was design. this is a big project. But it would be nice to see some clearer statistics including a sense of variation, not just averages.
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
over at grid.org the work units are sized to run for ~24hours on a 1Ghz PC. If you've got a newer PC then you get through more work units per day.
----------------------------------------By reducing the time to complete a work unit you boost the stickyness of your crunchers to this project as you feel more involved if your stats are increasing. If you have to wait a whole week to post a result you get bored and you go elseware. It's nice to log in each day and see your results going up. If the granularity of the stats returned is a week then when you are comparing your results to your crunching buddies something of the camaraderie (i had to check the spelling in Word) that keeps you hooked is lost if you haven't posted a result for a week and your mate has just posted a 168hour 3000 pointer and leaps ahead of you while you're still in the doldrums stuck at around 10% for another day. My experience on grid.org is that if a WU takes longer than ~10 hours on a 2400+ Athlon then the feel good factor of your contribution to the grid wanes. This is approximately equivalent to a days processing on a 1Ghz box per WU (I'm sure the maths is not accurate but it's close enough) I realise that there is a balancing act to perform between the number of results the database has to hold and the internet bandwidth required to get the results back on board at IBM. But IBM if you want your user base to increase, keep interested and stick around I would suggest that the current work unit size is too large, after all at the moment the numbers of crunchers is miniscule to what it could be. Hopefully at the moment we're just scratching the surface of the infrastructure back at IBM. Best Regards Dave ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
"Unfortunately I doubt work units can be made any smaller as each encompass a single protein. When proteins fold each and every amino acid contributes to its characteristic folding pathway - therefore the whole peptide is required for the calculation. A change to a single amino acid in even the largest of proteins can render it inactive and alter its folding characteristics - the basis for many diseases. This has always been the problem in determining how proteins fold and their shear size requires such high computational requirements."
I get the point on how it will probably be hard (and require a LOT of work to divide the WU's up more at the get-go. But, there would be one easy solution to this. As we all watch the percentage gauges from time to time to see if progress is being made - there seems to be an obvious way to break it up a little. Have each computer work a set amount of % for each WU, then send in the partial results and treat that partial as one WU(Measuring 0- 100% within those 5% of the grand total). I guess this could cause strain on those with poor connections (dialup and such... I'm told that they still exist somewhere, although I'm not sure where :) sooo... one could imagine a button that allowed you to just report the partial and continue onwards to the next 5% chip of the total WU, with a new stop at 10% and so on... |
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gueriny
Cruncher Joined: Nov 24, 2004 Post Count: 1 Status: Offline |
I cannot agree more ! The length of work unit makes it also likely - especially for machine with constant freeze due to power saving while traveling like mine - that the same work unit wil have been considered dead as not coming back in due time and rescheduled on another machine, leading to a very unefficient duplication of work !
Would be interested to know how the server is tuned in term of result wait time. Moreover, having such work units increases the probability for something wrong to happen. Had a blue screen with XP due to constant Wifi connection/deconnection and when I rebooted WCG got launched and grabbed 90% of my CPU. Had to hard kill it which led to the loss of the run work unit... that was 57% completed after something like 20 hours of CPU time ! Quite frustrating indeed ! |
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