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alanb1951
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

I like the idea of these types of system because of the small footprint (I am very space-constrained) and relatively low power (if I don't hammer the GPU!) -- however, it didn't become relevant until I decided I wanted some extra kit to free up resources on my main general-purpose systems :-) at which point my floor-space said "not a chance!"...

So, as an experiment, I have been running an ASUS barebones 5060H system for over a year now (with 32GB Ram and an NVMe SSD for system files and a conventional SSD for bulk data.) It has a very primitive BIOS setup; in particular there are no options for controlling power and the fan control is very basic -- "quiet" versus "normal" :-) Initially I ran it with quiet fan and no other tweaks -- if it was thermal throttling it did so in a very non-intrusive way, though it was running quite hot when the ambient temperature got into the mid-to-high 20s (Centigrade)... If it got bad enough I'd reboot so I could change the fan setting (until I got fed up with the constant extra noise!)

I eventually realised that I can use a sysfs setting to turn off boost mode, so it is now running with a maximum clock of 3.3GHz (instead of being able to boost to 4GHz) -- an unchanged workload now takes just under 15% longer per task (which figures!) Without the slow-down the system ran around 75C with a noisy fan; with no boost it runs around 65C with the fan inaudible most of the time!

As for throughput, I'm very pleased with it! I don't let BOINC have all CPU threads on any of my systems, so my current workload mix has 3 MCM1 tasks and one 3-thread MilkyWay NBody task[1]; MCM1 tasks were taking around 1.00 hours CPU time, and now take around 1.12 to 1.15 hours. (There's no point trying to compare the MW tasks because their run-time can vary considerably...) With boost enabled, it was running MCM1 tasks at about the same pace as my 3700X system (which I discovered lost little or no performance if I cut the TDP by about 10% via the BIOS!) and even with boost off it runs MCM1 somewhat faster than my i7-7700K (capped at 4GHz)

I'm considering a MINIS FORUM 7840HS system (if I can sort out more KVM stuff and so on...) for possible CPDN work along with WCG -- if I do get one I'll report on it later...

Cheers - Al.

[1] WCG is allowed extra tasks for when ARP1/SCC1 work is available, so it's currently undersubscribed; when ARP1 restarts, the MW work will become a fallback project...
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by alanb1951 at May 16, 2024 8:44:36 AM]
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BobbyB
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

Now this post is more like what I expect (except for the space-contrained smile ). Less juice, less output over a unit of time.

I have a similar problem as you with the boost mode but opposite. I want it flat out at the default frequency. Right now it trottles it self so the time for a WU is about twice what it should be. It's in the thread below this one called A Ryzen 5950X question https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,46621
Bottom line I have a CPU operating at about 50-60%.

Tell me more about the sysfs settings so I can see what I got. I looked it up and each site explains it differently which makes it all confusing. I presume the program cpupower.

Your way of controlling other projects gave me a better way of controlling the projects on my systems. I knew about app_config.xml but only applied it to other projects when WCG was dry.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by BobbyB at May 16, 2024 3:58:05 PM]
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alanb1951
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

BobbyB,

Regarding using the /sys hierarchy to tweak system behaviour on Ryzen hardware, that's in a state of flux at present -- the latest kernels have a lot more available in the way of CPU-control governors and drivers, and what might be good for a 5.15 kernel may not be optimal for [say] a 6.4 kernel...

Given how I did my searching on the topic, a lot of the stuff I found was about managing performance laptops and small "gamer's systems" (i.e. laptop-style CPUs, usually with U, H or HS suffix), and different users had found different combinations worked best for their specific environment and use case...

As for running a system flat out, I'll try to revisit your other thread in a while (I'm a bit busy at present!), and I'll put some observations about the relevant /sys stuff on my 3700X and 5600H in there.

Cheers - Al.

P.S. I am using Ubuntu 22.04 LTS with 5.15 kernels, so I haven't had a chance to experiment with the newer governors and various "pstate" drivers. If I get that newer mini-PC I'll be starting that on 24.04, which will start at kernel 6.8, and I'll have some time for experiments before it goes into regular service :-)
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Link64
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

According to this, even the 16-core Ryzen 9 7950X can be pulled down to 45 W TDP (61W PPT) for all 16 cores. That means 65W TDP (88W PPT) should be also possible and a lot more efficient than 2 8-core systems with 35W TDP (47W PPT) each, in particular because you need to feed just one mainbaord+RAM+SSD+PSU+whatever. And you use standard, easily replacable cooling solutions (and all other parts) instead of some proprietary crap which might be nearly impossible to replace if it fails.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Link64 at May 19, 2024 9:49:57 AM]
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bfmorse
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

I have three reconditioned mini PCs. Unfortunately, with the first one, I received a non-compatible power supply. Always ran at the slowest speed.
Once I was provided with the correct power adapter, performance improved.
I’ll try and get more specific information for you later.
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mmstick
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

I got a Beelink SER8 with a Ryzen 8845HS for exactly $650 last month via direct order from Beelink's website. The 32 GB RAM it comes with is good enough for use as a Linux development workstation—which I've mounted underneath a portable table with Velcro tape. It is replacing my laptop, which had a Ryzen 6800H.

The CPU is 15% faster than my Ryzen 5700G desktop overclocked to 4.2 GHz, but with less than half the energy consumption. The maximum cTDP is 54W, shared between the iGPU and CPU. So far I've tested it on Folding@Home and Mapping Cancer Markers. With Mapping Cancer Markers, it completes 16 work units every 1.23h. The overclocked Ryzen 5700G takes 1.45h per CPU thread. While the Ryzen 6800H takes 2.3h per CPU thread. On Folding@Home, you can either get 500K PPD with 16 CPU threads; or get 350K PPD from 15 CPU threads while also getting 250K PPD from the Radeon 780M iGPU.

Folding on the iGPU requires installing ROCm and adding the fah-client user to the video and render groups to use OpenCL. It also throttles the CPU since it shares the same 54W cTDP budget, but not by much. From 4.2~4.4 GHz to 3.4-3.8GHz. Much better than my Ryzen 6800H laptop, which would have its CPU frequencies dump to 1.1 GHz if the iGPU is folding.
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by mmstick at Jul 13, 2024 12:10:16 AM]
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gibbcorp
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

That is pretty impressive. Can you run MCM on the cpu cores and folding@home on the igpu at the same time?
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KodeX
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

...You can configure a standard desktop CPU to similar power usage as the CPUs in those PCs, they are nothing special, just using different power limits. With some real cooler in a real PC case on it instead of those laptop-like noisy crap they put in those mini PCs it will run silently at temperatures you'll never see in those mini PCs.


I would like to catch up this point. During the last month I put some thoughts in energy efficient crunching and tested several builds. Here is a screenshot of one of my PCs I am using:


You see a Ryzen 7900 with 12c/24t running 100% MCM using 38W.
Setting: Undervolting (curve optimization -20), speed limit set to 3.700MHz (= boost deactivated)
One MCM WU takes 1h 23min.
Although I am losing a bit performance, I am quite happy regarding the energy efficiency and cooling. Since WCG is more a marathon than a sprint, this setup works fine for me.

So I would like to encourage you to use a "standard" desktop CPUs and to throttle it in a way it fits your needs/goals. You can tweak it as you want, cooling is better and you are more flexible if you want to change your hardware in future.
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Link64
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Re: Anyone using a Mini PC (like Beelink, Minisforum, GMKtec)?

You see a Ryzen 7900 with 12c/24t running 100% MCM using 38W.
Setting: Undervolting (curve optimization -20), speed limit set to 3.700MHz (= boost deactivated)
One MCM WU takes 1h 23min.
Although I am losing a bit performance, I am quite happy regarding the energy efficiency and cooling

I'm running my Ryzen 5700G in similar way, boost limited to 4000 MHz, all-core CO at -30 (not possible if I'd let it boost to the default 4.65 GHz). Runs 14x MCM1 (around 1h23m per task) and Einstein's O3 on the (not undervolted) iGPU at around 65W (total, not just CPU) and 75°C (around 65-68°C if the iGPU is idle). I'm not loosing even much performance, with the stock cooler which came with the CPU it would run into thermal limit at around 4200-4300 MHz anyway, at 4 GHz I'm already 20° below that limit.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Link64 at Aug 3, 2024 11:49:54 AM]
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