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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 22
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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retsof wrote...
----------------------------------------Since WCG started out with the same software as grid.org, I would say that points just pile up as usual, regardless of which project you may be working on. Points is points. Parts is parts. There will be global statistics split out by project, but I don't think the split is captured for members and teams, unless WCG would be doing something new. knreed wrote... retsof, I like that idea, especially since many are biased toward one project or another.We actually do have the stats by project in the database at the level of device, user, team_user, team and country. This means that it is possible to create pages in the stats section of the website that could show a teams contribution to HPF, project A, Project B and Project C. After our big rollout of changes coming up (new project, linux client, french, etc) we might be able to take a look at the statistics pages and come up with some new pages to show this or other things that the users might like to see. If you would like can you start a new thread to start a user discussion of changes you would like to see on the stats pages? I cannot promise changes but input from the users is definitely read and considered when we do our planning. I like that this would be a good way for new teams to be able to compete against established teams and so encourage new teams to recruit heavily. knreed In the meantime I will just post this to start a topic. I haven't asked for much new in the way of statistics because of past experience. grid.org has had ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS with the statistics database, with many crashes, corrupt data, losses, restores, regenerations and device reregistrations. They are reporting the same types of sets as here in the statistics area. As more history gets posted here, hopefully WCG will not come across the same problems, especially since the UD interface is being used in both cases. I don't know who is using dual logging (to reduce corruption) or what the database backup frequency might be. Perhaps they waited too long between backups. ![]()
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----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 5 times, last edit by retsof at Nov 2, 2005 6:43:19 PM] |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Retsof,
We take weekly offline backups and daily online backups. If the database becomes corrupt under most scenarios we would be able to recover from the daily online backup and under the most dire type of crash we can still restore from the weekly backup. Feel free to come up with creative things that can be done with the stats and let us to to worry about making sure it is stable Kevin |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I think it has been said before, but what I would like to see is the number of "active" devices. Maybe even active devices per project. Active can be defined as returning a result within the last time-out period (say a week/ 7 days). There is a webpage out there that displays stats based on yesterdays numbers, and taking the time output and saying how many devices we have.
http://vspx27.stanford.edu/DCcomparison.html Also how about the average processor score for all of the active devices. If you have that information. Can someone verify, I think I saw at least a 1,000 device increase since the linux client release. Tracking active devices would tell us how many of those may have been running the windows client and are glad they can switch over to linux and others have boxes on the side that were doing nothing for WCG, waiting for the linux release. Also, I havn't been seeing people do those calculations to tell how powerful WCG in terms such as Flops, etc. We know that we are more powerful than super computers, but how powerful? This information can be used in future press releases. They love facts. Give them as many as you can. I personally don't like the points system. I see one of my systems, that I know is slower have more points, just because it has more time. The other, which is faster and done a lot more work, still has less points. The only way that I can think of for this to be correct is if the slower computer did harder work units than the fast computer. I hope someone understands what I am trying to say here. With some older systems, to me, it is better to save your electric bill and upgrade. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
There are many discussions on points versus results and I feel sure that BOINC will add to that debate. bbover3 said that the statistics for active devices will be reviewed after the end-of-year crunch is over. It looks like a pretty hectic schedule for the rest of the year. The statistic I follow is run time, on the assumption that the percentage of run time devoted to the grid probably does not fluctuate much.
mycrofth |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hi Sterling2p,
you're right about those hard facts. Almost every project has them. About the point system, I found out that there's an easy way to 'cheat'. It's not exactly cheating but i'll explain. When you run an instance of the WCG app and run another DC project on top of it that runs with a slightly higher priority it will consume all idle CPU power but the wall clock time keeps counting. Then after a few days or so, you let the WCG workunit complete and let the benchmark have a nice result. Points = Wallclocktime * Benchmark So while you actualy crunched about 3 hours (just to say something) you claim points for 4 days. In the meantime you can get credits for the other DC project as well. (I can think of some people who are stats addict and do these stuff , not looking at myself ofcourse. I'm in for the science but the stats are helpful to keep everything interesting)Hope i didn't make big mistakes in here ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hi Pconfig,
Yes, the real trick is figuring out how much of the run time was devoted to the application. Traditionally, distributed computing projects assume 100% and award points for that. If you have a multi-threading Agent you can run 2 threads on a hyperthreading processor and double the points awarded for little if any actual increase in throughput. [sigh . . . .] But this is just a clever trick used by distributed computer projects to entice users to contribute their computer time. Some people are so constituted as to be uninterested in anything without a dishonest angle to exploit. [No, I'm not thinking of a relative, or rather, we are only related by marriage. Grin] mycrofth |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Oops,
I finally got around to reading the papers about BOINC at http://boinc.berkeley.edu/papers.php David Anderson seems to have developed a second-generation points system that looks pretty good. The processor benchmark is run several times during a long work unit, which should do a much better job of tracking CPU utilization. But the big improvement is that points are not awarded when the result is returned. Instead, the server waits until the validator daemon has enough copies returned to declare them valid. Then the scores of the valid results are computed and, at the option of the project, either the average score or the lowest score is awarded to everyone returning a valid result. So everybody gets the same number of points for that work unit. This is fair and makes cheating very difficult. I should have read the manual before pontificating!! mycrofth |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hey! We seem to have hit a milestone. 100k results returned in a single day! Also we seem to have jumped a few thousand registered devices.
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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bbover3 said that the statistics for active devices will be reviewed after the end-of-year crunch is over. It would not be a problem to eliminate devices that are more than, say, a rolling 3 months old from the current date, that have NEVER returned a result.mycrofth That keeps the new devices around that may be having some sort of temporary problem. If you eliminate old devices that HAVE returned results, you ruin the history.
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Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
restof,
You are not understanding me. I would like to see another number/ statistic that says to us how many devices were active in the last time-out period. We do not have to delete those devices. In fact, it would be interesting to look at the number of "active" devices verses the number of total installed devices. Also, this active device number is more for devices on the total grid or per project. We can already see which devices are active for our own accounts, but just take that to the next level, next year. Once we have an active device number, I think some people would not worry as much about having duplicate devices and such. To me, they seem to want to do housekeeping on their account so that the devices listed are all currently producing, and therefore make the WCG device number closer to an active device number. What do you think? |
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