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KerSamson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

I second numya241's comment. A minimum of 100% more? Even with a reasonably fast processor I'm running over the time limit on the most recent WUs.

I don't know how your system is setup and how you manage the queue.
My machines are not really fast - since they are not the youngest - however the fastest machine (i7 6700K) needs about 16 - 17 hours for each ARP1 WU; the other machines (Phenom II x6) need about 24 - 27 hours for each ARP1 WU; the Ryzen 7 2700 machines need between 18 and 22 hours for each ARP1 WU.
The current deadline is set to 7 days. If your machines cannot achieve an ARP1 WU within 120 hours (5 days), you should not select the ARP1 project for those machines.
In all cases, since there is no feeding trouble with ARP1, you shall not maintain a large buffer: < 2 days or better < 1.5 day.
Extending the deadline will cause troubles at WCG side, since the batches have to be kept available much longer and it takes a lot of storage resources.
Cheers,
Yves
---
PS: For each project, the minimal performance requirements are clearly defined and shall be taken into account by the members.
In all cases, if you cannot operate your machines 24/7, it is advisable not to compute ARP1 work, otherwise you will simply waste energy and computational time without really contributing. OPN1 and MCM1 are much more convenient for machines not running 24/7.
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[Apr 10, 2021 3:26:13 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mike.Gibson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

I second Yves comments. My i7 3770 finishes ARP units in 24 hours but I restrict it to a maximum of 4 of 8 threads. The rest are shorter duration units like OPN1 or MCM1.

Keeping your cache low will mean that the units will start much sooner and so will be more likely to finish in time. Most projects are readily available so yo don't need a large cache.

The other problem is if you shut down regularly. Each time the units reset to the previous checkpoint which might mean losing up to 3 hours in my case because the checkpoints occur every 12.5%. Rather than shut down, it is better to hibernate or sleep because that way the unit retains the extra crunching.

Alternatively wait until the next checkpoint before shutting down, but that might take 3 hours.

Mike
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Brummig
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

BOINC was intended to make use of spare CPU cycles when the device is on but (in CPU terms) idling. I hibernate my PCs at night when I'm not using them, and they will be often off during weekends and holidays. They typically work with no queue, though occasionally a short queue may form. If researchers want 24/7 availability they should buy their own supercomputer. If they want free computing power, then they need to work within the limitations of the BOINC model, and work efficiently. Increasing the time to complete WUs would reduce the number of unneeded resends. This is a source of inefficiency, since those hosts that are pointlessly working on resends due to the inadequate time allowance could be working on unprocessed WUs (a host's record will tell you if and when it is likely to return a result). It would also be a big help if the African Rainfall Project generated snapshots more often so that hours of work are not lost whenever a reboot is required.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Brummig at Apr 11, 2021 8:24:08 AM]
[Apr 11, 2021 8:20:53 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KerSamson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

It would also be a big help if the African Rainfall Project generated snapshots more often so that hours of work are not lost whenever a reboot is required.

Since project start, this point has been raised several times and the answer is easy:
"It is not possible to add more checkpoints."
The tech team discussed this topic at the project launch providing good explanation about this constraint.
Again, members have to read the minimal requirements related to each project they wish to contribute to. If the system availability contradict the project requirements, you should not opt-in for this project.
It is not an issue since the other active projects - especially OPN1 and MCM1 - are easy to compute without the risk of losing valuable computing time.
Likewise, usually projects have a 10 days deadline. There is some exceptions like ARP1 with a 7 day deadline and FAH2 with 1 day deadline.
Happy crunching,
Yves
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Simplex0
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

i would be happy to contribute to this project if they gave the work more time to finish.


Same here.
One of my computers I run like 6-9 hors per day and I just noticed the some of the workuntis have run out of time and some of them have being aborted by the project after have being crunched for 14 hours, what a waste.

I have lowered the Project Limits to 1 now and will keep an eye on it for now.
[Apr 11, 2021 12:41:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KerSamson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

In all cases, if you decide to contribute to ARP1, you should limit the number of concurrently computed WUs to thread count / 2, otherwise the CPU becomes very slow and ineffective.
On my side, the limitation is: (thread count / 2) -1
For example: for a 4 core / 8 thread CPU: a maximum of 3 concurrent ARP1 WUs.
For doing it, I use app_config.xml with following setting:
<app_config>
<app>
<name>arp1</name>
<max_concurrent>3</max_concurrent>
<fraction_done_exact/>
</app>
</app_config>

Cheers,
Yves
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Mike.Gibson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

Yves

I also use appconfig.xml but without the fraction line. It works fine. What does that line do?

Mike
[Apr 12, 2021 12:18:35 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KerSamson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

Hi Mike,
according to Boinc wiki, fraction_done_exact is optional: if set, base estimates of remaining time solely on the fraction done reported by the app.
When I prepared my first app_config.xml files, I noticed that <fraction_done_exact/> was mentioned and I took it over.
Cheers,
Yves
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sam6861
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

if you decide to contribute to ARP1, you should limit the number of concurrently computed WUs to thread count / 2, otherwise the CPU becomes very slow and ineffective.
I wonder how much slow down. After trying out 100% ARP1 tasks, some CPU like AMD FX 4100 have almost no slow down, and some CPU like Ryzen 3900x are severely slowed down. Probably RAM bandwidth limited. Highly recommend 2 RAM sticks, equal size, for faster dual channel RAM on AM4, AM3, LGA1155, LGA1150.

Here are the per-task CPU hours, comparing a few ARP1 with other tasks mixed in, to all ARP1 tasks.
CPU          , RAM size & speed     , OS   , 1 to 3 ARP1, All ARP1
Ryzen 3900x , 4x 8GB =32GB 2800 , Win10, 12.79 hours, 22.31 hours
Ryzen 2700x , 4x16GB =64GB 2933 ECC, Win10, 16.20 hours, 25.56 hours
Intel i7-2600, 2x 8GB =16GB 1333 , Linux, 28.39 hours, 34.71 hours
AMD FX 4100 , 4x 8GB =32GB 1600 ECC, Linux, 26.03 hours, 26.51 hours

[Apr 16, 2021 7:13:59 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mike.Gibson
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Re: Hesistant to contribute to this one

Thanks, Yves

I think I will stick to my version.

Cheers

Mike
[Apr 17, 2021 3:57:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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