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KLiK
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Re: 30 days before end warning

First of all, CALM DOWN!!! Nobody insulted you. All I did was request that you not speak on my (or other crunchers) behalf by using the word "US". You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. What may be OK with you may not be OK with others. It seems when somebody disagrees with you, you take it as some sort of insult and start using inappropriate forum language and start telling others what you think they should do from now on. If you are as truly educated and intelligent as you have indicated in these forums over the past few years, there shouldn't be any reason why you would object to a legitimate debate on the merits of an idea. My only conclusion would be that you feel your idea has no merit or you are incapable of defending it in a rational manner. Second, I'm not making anybody use any language, advanced or not. They are free to read and use whatever they find is useful to them. I wouldn't suggest insulting anyone's intelligence by "dumbing down" the discussion. If a new cruncher is initially having trouble with the BOINC concepts, they can always ask questions until they learn the concepts. It seems your idea is to only put out the basic information and deny others the opportunity to learn. Thirdly, if you go back and read my post, I didn't suggest putting ANYTHING on the main page. I only stated what information I would like to see. I will let WCG decide where the most appropriate place should be. Fourth, What does an NDA have to do with anything? Batch numbers and counts have absolutely nothing to do with the research data. As a matter of fact, I would strongly suggest that batches are a WCG thing and not related to the research. It is just a way of breaking up the computational work into manageable sizes for the grid. Lastly, your item you labeled as "3rd" is blatantly a false statement. EVERY project since 2004 has had batches. What Sgt. Joe indicated, and rightfully so, is that not all work runs as unique batches. There is some work that is 'dependent" on work before it and therefore is generational in nature which makes knowing the number of future batches a lot more problematic. I agree and we would have to find a way around those or except them as "one offs". What he did was point out a potential "flaw" in my idea but, unlike you, I can accept that.

Well, I'm calm...but thanks for asking for my health! wink

When I do say some words like "it would be of benefit to us", that doesn't mean all of us. To be frank with you, I don't really think of you at all, when I'm writing this.
What I'm saying is a view from them portion of volunteers here.
& YES, there are many views there.

Now, don't be rude & saying things that are not appropriate to the forum language.
All suggestions are perfectly legit & easily defend-able.

Well, when you try to impose the number of batches on the MAIN RESEARCH WEBPAGE, then you impose that everybody knows about those. There are, again saying them, several reasons why not:
1. NOT ALL projects use batches
2. those batches can be written when you open the PROJECT WEBPAGE - as people who open them want more information
3. Like Jobs used to say, you have to make things SIMPLE enough for your mother to use (actually it's: "That's been one of my mantras - focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.").
In all these things people of WCG have to ask themselves: is this webpage easy for my mother & father to use? Does my aunt know how to install & setup BOINC with this install? Does my uncle needs to see batches on the RESEARCH PAGE, or can they be put somewhere else?
Remember, we have all been dumb in one point of our life, as we have been illiterate! wink

BTW, new cruncher is "average Joe" (or Jane, to be sexually correct), which doesn't use forums. Nor does it know how to use them?
Most people have just phones, browse some web, check their facebook (or other social media: twitter, instagram, etc.). They don't even use reddit, which is easier than a forum!

When you say you'd like to see something & not saying where you want it - it gets people confused. Why? 'cause it can be "everywhere" on the WCG webpage. So you have to be more focused in telling people exactly what would you want & where... But that's just my observation!
Maybe it will be easier when you say also where would you put some information, so people will know what exactly are you saying.
& WCG can't know where to put some new information, so this topic is here to HELP THEM, not making their life even heavier!

As we have seen, batches are ordered in a fashion of database inputs (base from pharmaceutical companies). Some people here might come from the industry & see the name of the database, from the size of the database.
Let me give you a better picture: you got researcher, who want to fight some virus. He gets the program (like VINA), gets the digital image for the virus, gets the database (from WCG, from their university - but all those databases come from pharmaceutical industry giants - mostly). From database, you can get several batches (molecule variants), which then is sliced into WU for crunching. What WCG is responsible (admins, correct me if I'm wrong) is to slice & send out data for crunching to each of us.
So no, number of batches is not a WCG job, but slicing & sending out WUs is.

Still we haven't heard anything from admins & techs, is there NDA signed between researchers & WCG. But as it's a competitive marketplace, I do thing they sign something very similar.
Waiting for their confirmation or denial...

Are you 2 sure about all project having batches?
As FAH2 has a parent-daughter WUs, not sure there are batches.
Did the water projects have batches also?
Did the genome comparison projects also have them? All of them or just some of them? I do remember that UGM had them, but to differ the one organism genome from the other.

Well, we come from a different points in chain of command. I can expect some ideas, as long as they are "productive". Like I said OK to your proposal, but not on the RESEARCH WEBPAGE, as it's too much for a new people & most people don't need so much information. But in every PROJECT WEBPAGE, there could be enough room for implementing a total size of the project, as the graph there is so much bigger.
But at 1st glance we have to easy to look at & to understand. Remember that we need to attract people on WCG & to make them stay. Why? Well, I've attracted between 30-40 people to sign up on WCG, most of them only signed up. Only 10 people stayed! Let's say that 1/2 of them didn't care about what we do here. That means that WCG lost in complication about 1/4 of the people of not being simple enough for them.
So yes, that's why I did say NO to the putting batches on RESEARCH WEBPAGE. Most of them won't come here to read the forums & find a solutions for their quest. In fact, most of them won't come here from the computer, but from the Androids...

BTW, techs & admins: is there a chance to have a "Android BOINC named WCG" (or similar) in the future? wink
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ErikaT
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Re: 30 days before end warning

Hello all,

While everyone is entitled to their own opinions, inappropriate forum language and behavior will not be tolerated. Please review the Communication Guidelines for the rules regarding forum behavior.

Please consider this a warning for this thread. It will be locked if the rules continue to be broken.

Thank you,
ErikaT
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: 30 days before end warning

ErikaT +1
Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
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jhindo
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Re: 30 days before end warning

While I appreciate the debate of new ideas, I echo ErikaT in reminding everyone to discuss your ideas civilly and politely.

To answer a few questions:

We do put in place an agreement with each research group which covers many aspects of the project including how we handle communicating project information. As mentioned previously, we then work closely with the researchers on an ongoing basis to ensure we're not sharing any information that is confidential or not ready to be shared publicly yet.

And there are no plans (at least in the near future) to have a World Community Grid branded Android client.

Finally, regarding batch counts, etc. Much of this is very project specific. e.g. one project may have 10k work units per batch, while another may have 5 or 10 times as many. Some projects can produce a big number of batches at the same time, while others rely on the results of one (or more) batches to produce the next grouping of work. Some researchers know ahead of time how much work they want to run, while others determine that as the project goes along. So while concepts like batches and work units are pretty universal across the projects, generating and sizing the work is quite project-specific.
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[SG-FC]Hammerburg
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Re: 30 days before end warning

+1
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[Apr 11, 2017 7:27:20 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: 30 days before end warning

While I appreciate the debate of new ideas, I echo ErikaT in reminding everyone to discuss your ideas civilly and politely.

To answer a few questions:

We do put in place an agreement with each research group which covers many aspects of the project including how we handle communicating project information. As mentioned previously, we then work closely with the researchers on an ongoing basis to ensure we're not sharing any information that is confidential or not ready to be shared publicly yet.

And there are no plans (at least in the near future) to have a World Community Grid branded Android client.

Finally, regarding batch counts, etc. Much of this is very project specific. e.g. one project may have 10k work units per batch, while another may have 5 or 10 times as many. Some projects can produce a big number of batches at the same time, while others rely on the results of one (or more) batches to produce the next grouping of work. Some researchers know ahead of time how much work they want to run, while others determine that as the project goes along. So while concepts like batches and work units are pretty universal across the projects, generating and sizing the work is quite project-specific.

Will do!

& thank you for elaborating to others, about the:
- NDA
- Android client (though I really think WCG should make one)
- & explanation about batches

Can we get some summarize from you, what did you put on "to do list"? wink
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ErikaT
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Re: 30 days before end warning

Can we get some summarize from you, what did you put on "to do list"? wink
Here is a high level summary of the posts made by jhindo in this thread:

  • We are looking to replace the progress bars. This will not happen before Q3 2017.
  • What the progress bars will likely be replaced with is a higher level idea of how far along the project is at. And any more granular information (such as a projected end date, whenever known), would be provided elsewhere.
  • At this time, it has yet to be determined if we will have to pause the Smash Childhood Cancer project.
  • We will discuss and figure out how we might tweak our member communication processes to address concerns expressed in this thread.

Thank you for your support,
ErikaT
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dcs1955
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Re: 30 days before end warning


  • At this time, it has yet to be determined if we will have to pause the Smash Childhood Cancer project.



  • Erika ??? Does this mean that the upcoming Project completion date is just a pause to SCC project?
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    gb009761
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    Re: 30 days before end warning

    Well, now we know - as pointed out in the Pause for Smash Childhood Cancer project
    As some of you have noticed, the current batch of work for the Smash Childhood cancer work will finish in about a week or so. We were expecting more work right away so that there would not be a pause. However, the researchers were not able to prepare the work for the next cancer targets as quickly as originally thought. Part of the difficulty has been obtaining exact structures of some of the targets. But, they expect to have another target to run soon. They are continuing to work on determining the structure of other targets and for even later, they are choosing additional targets for the future. So, please be patient and thank you for all of the contributions to date.

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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by gb009761 at Apr 13, 2017 6:58:21 PM]
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