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Category: Support Forum: Suggestions / Feedback Thread: How to Get More People Involved |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
In my previous company I posted the same idea on their worldwide bulletin board (Yammer.com) and sadly didn't get any official reply. It can be about operating costs and hurdles, but I think most of all about setup costs and hurdles vs. expected PR benefits for the company.
----------------------------------------I think the crucial step would be to make WCG well enough known in the media so that companies would seek by themselves to contribute in order to get good PR. It's all about making yourself viral. I can also tell you about my difficulties when trying to install this at work on my own. A common problem is that even if the PC is able to run Boinc, its fan makes too much noise. Even if you cap CPU time as low as 20% or so the problem may persist, or even become more annoying because Boinc modulates CPU time over a long time -- e.g. the fan makes a lot of noise for 1 second, remains silent 4 seconds, and repeats this cycle over and over. Two employers ago I had this problem. Eventually I kept Boinc installed and got rid of the excessive fan speed by relocating the chassis in a weird way (laying down on the floor 90 degrees instead of standing, and resting on four rubber erasers as table feet). This machine kept churning two years after I left the company, I guess until someone reformatted and reinstalled Windows. At the next company I didn't have admin access to my own PC. As I said I raised the initiative informally but got no response. At my current company I have a Windows laptop and a Linux workstation. I tried the laptop and although it's much more powerful than my home PC, the fan makes very noticeable noise even at 20 or 10%. I disabled it before any coworker would complain about the noise. The Linux distro on the workstation (OpenSuse) does not provide a working Boinc version from its repository. I did make it work after a lot of work and requiring a lot of help from the technical forum here, but not yet in a nice automatic way. Moreover these Linux machines of ours are already used for background distributed computing (distributed compilation of our own code), so in the end it looked to me that I should not leave it running. You can imagine how these difficulties (even forgetting about my last case) could play out catastrophically if you mass install Boinc across a whole organization. So Boinc could also help this by being more foolproof and robust, and allowing more customization by the sysadmin and requiring less control from the user. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 17, 2016 8:38:11 PM] |
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Anjes
Cruncher Joined: Apr 13, 2016 Post Count: 1 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Some major corporations spend billions on advertising. They could spend a fraction of that donating computing power and make a better name for themselves. Maybe someone just needs to sell this idea to the right person.
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I used to work for a MAJOR corporation in one of the top 5 most populous cities in the US. At the time this company had a little over 10,000 employees and most employees had laptops and desktops so you imagine the number of machines. This doesn't include anything in the two data centers each with multiple computational floors. I scheduled a lunch with the CIO and made an informal presentation to run BOINC. The items I mentioned above were just a few of the point that were raised by the CIO. I knew going in I wasn't going to get approval on a money basis as there weren't any cost savings to be had anywhere. I approached it more from a give back to the community stand point and what a good thing it would be if a discovery happened from the research and the company was identified as having contributed to that discovery. In other words, all companies like to look good in the eyes of their customers. The CIO didn't think the benefit was worth the potential cost to the IT budget in light of the fact that IT was always having to justify their budget by showing a business benefit. The major corporations are older, stodgy, entities and they aren't concerned about "ethics" unless it's business ethics forced on them by regulators. They are only concerned about earnings and shareholder value. If it doesn't contribute to those two things, it's a tough sell. It didn't work at my company but my recommendation would be to pursue it through Corporate Communications or Community Outreach initiatives.
It wouldn't have to be a default app but could be a downloadable app from a corporate menu of apps. The employees could choose to contribute but the support issue is still there. |
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KeithSloan
Cruncher Joined: May 1, 2009 Post Count: 25 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
How about support for Raspberry Pi. I have two Pi-2's running 24x7 that contribute more BOINC points running Einstein@home and SETI@home than my desktop running WCG
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I should also mention that there were a group of us that had it installed and it was working fine for several years and then the infamous IBM decided to move some stuff to the CDN. That pretty much killed it at that corporation. We were accessing IBM through a HTTPS proxy and we were able to get it working with few tweaks and corporate security and network support were very helpful but the CDN thing was more than they were willing to support. The CDN doesn't use the same IP address all the time and folks behind firewalls were having issues also. The recommendation from IBM was to unblock a RANGE of IP addresses and they provided the range. Our corporate security folks wouldn't not support that at all so it died as things moved to the CDN.
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KeithSloan
Cruncher Joined: May 1, 2009 Post Count: 25 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
If the future of computing is the Cloud and services like AWS, what is the future for Grid and WCG? IBM revenue for the last 16 quarters has been shrinking as their server business is replaced by cloud, so I would have thought more stuff moving to the cloud would affect WCG as people save money by limiting their capacity rather than have WCG run in the back ground,
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we4qcphi8
Cruncher Joined: Jul 28, 2016 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Focusing on big companies, there are roughly 1,900 companies in the U.S. with over 5,000 employees. http://www.census.gov/epcd/susb/latest/us/US--.HTM
To think about the potential for a moment: 1900 x 5,000 = 9.5 million (people). Not all of those employees are sitting at a computer, so let's round down to 9 million office computers, in large companies, as the target. 10% of 9m is 900,000 machines. 5% of 9m is 450,000 machines - a massive amount of processing power. @Doneske, as a person who works in corporate America, I definitely believe you when you recount your experiences. There is no doubt that there would need to be buy-in by the company leadership. Perhaps the model could be along the lines of this: Approved by management - They are aware of it, they allow it through firewalls, etc. Grassroots maintained - Management is allowing it, and taking credit for it! It is a "program" that they can trumpet. But the employees are doing the installation. A cap on how many employees are allowed to do it. - Perhaps a set number per team or something like that. Obviously, this model was not followed by the company you were working at, @Doneske. But if it were to exist, it could then be pointed at by employees who want to make this happen. It would be "a thing". That's not to say that your company would suddenly say, "Ok, well then we'll do it." But at least it would be out there. |
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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Mar 29, 2007 Post Count: 1343 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Nobody has even begun to discuss impacts beyond CPU usage/heat. I too work for a bank and can tell you it will never happen because of the security regulations we are held to. I can also say that if you tried to mandate that we run DC projects on our network, we are going to see a lot of extra traffic that we already struggle with due to not all being located in large cities containing lots of competing companies for fibre connections. We still have branches on T1's that we deal with on a daily basis having bandwidth issues with the services communicating with home base. If we have CEP2 work units come down that pipeline, you can forget it. Sure we could limit the participation to off hours, but then you have to look at systems that fail at night because of DC'ing. Some projects are hard on HDD's. CEP2 is again one that comes to mind. We too have gotten to the point of using the tiny PC's for many stations. We've noticed the Dell 3020m's have issues with the HDD's running really hot and have done several RMA's with them. We are now moving to 3040m's that have the SSD's.
----------------------------------------Power usage is still a concern because a lot of banks are cheaply built. You will find there are a lot of outlets all tied to the same circuit. We fight Tellers running space heaters under their desks pretty much year round. Yes some get cold during the summer even. Too much pushing on the circuit and you have more problems. Newer machines use less power, but they are also getting bigger monitors, more accessories for various offerings, etc... Again, after hours contributions would be key. RAM is an issue with some of the boxes these days as many companies don't pay for more than a standard 4GB setup. Servers are typically off limits for non-critical processes. There are several other things to consider too, but the problem to overcome is huge when getting a for-profit on board with approving the contribution. And when it comes to our employees doing charity work, it is typically encouraged to be organizations with a local "community" presence though others are ok. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Coleslaw at Aug 18, 2016 12:31:03 AM] |
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Richard Mitnick
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Post Count: 583 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
The single most important thing these days is social media. Get on Facebook, Twitter, sing the praises of this work.
----------------------------------------I support WCG on my sciencesprings blog. Every time I see a good article I do a blog post. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Nobody is denying the large amount of untapped computing power out in the corporate world and I hate to keep sounding like a "wet blanket" but there is the ideal world and the realistic world. In my case, and probably others too, there is the corporate politics that get involved. Imagine for instance, someone in Dept A tries to run a business function on a corporate machine and it fails, lets say due to memory issues. Diagnostics show that BOINC is in the top 5 users of the machine memory. Regardless of whether BOINC was the culprit or not, it isn't a business function. I can tell you, no executive is going to want his neck on the line for that especially if it resulted in a missed deadline that causes the company to be subject to sanctions. I'm thinking the best approach might be to pursue it on a departmental level at first and let it grow naturally through the corporation through positive feedback. The natural place to start would be IT...
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