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Category: Completed Research Forum: OpenZika Thread: Question the ethics and legitimacy of this project for BOINC |
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SekeRob
Master Cruncher Joined: Jan 7, 2013 Post Count: 2741 Status: Offline |
Actually, no not interested to know where you're coming from, nor the tome you put together. What I see is someone with 2 years membership telling active members what they 'should' be doing, when barely having scraped a single silver badge up and
----------------------------------------Last Result Returned (UTC) 6/4/16 18:17:37 [41+ hour(s) ago] Do as you please, and I do as I will, helping to add another piece to the knowledge base out of many years of volunteer computing time contributed under the BOINC framework. Not exploring additional opportunities to find a cure, would be arrogance if not ignorance... no disease has a single fix, a sure fire for high prices at that. [Edit 1 times, last edit by SekeRob* at Jun 6, 2016 1:47:52 PM] |
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hristo_h_m
Cruncher Joined: Dec 10, 2008 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Lets translate the last two post. In short:
The first post says infact silences: Science is business. Medicine is business. Who will "live" and who will "die", literary depends of who got the money. In our world driven by one phrase " SHOW ME THE MONEY". P.S. live=make science, die=sweet dreams. You can reread it in original why listen of what are made this sweet dreams. The other post,( the one's of veterans) and whole discussion here can be captured in the intro of mission about hill 400. Am I right Shaun? |
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MrKermit
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jun 13, 2009 Post Count: 95 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I did appreciate the level of depth Rac-Ram brings to the conversation. Perhaps it will help our team find additional support and engage other teams looking for answers!
----------------------------------------However, We should not try to pick winners and losers in this Zika fight... we should send in everyone that has a mind to fight with everything we can throw behind them for support. Cancer, Genomics, AIDS, Ebola, are all well known, funded, and explored as well - yet we throw what we can to the researchers in those projects! Any one research group's results could benefit all the others if a breakthrough is discovered. Remember the current AIDS treatment is essentially a set of multiple treatments discovered separately but working together. It's no cure, but it has added decades to millions of lives, including friends and family of nearly everyone on the planet. SekeRob is right though. Check or uncheck the boxes you like for the projects, but discouraging support of projects is unhelpful. There is no way to predict the lessons that will be learned by these researchers, or what it will do for their future work on other complex challenges. Holistic Medicine is a thing. Maybe this is an argument for Holistic Research. We are not merely fighting specific diseases, we are supporting researchers whose careers will be forever changed knowing what computational modeling can, and cannot, do for them. If we leave it to "Big Grants, Big Governments, and Big Companies" alone to search for answers, we lose a lot of brilliant minds looking in innovative places for a part of the solution. Cheers! MrKermit |
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poppageek
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 99 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Actually, no not interested to know where you're coming from, nor the tome you put together. What I see is someone with 2 years membership telling active members what they 'should' be doing, when barely having scraped a single silver badge up and Last Result Returned (UTC) 6/4/16 18:17:37 [41+ hour(s) ago] Do as you please, and I do as I will, helping to add another piece to the knowledge base out of many years of volunteer computing time contributed under the BOINC framework. Not exploring additional opportunities to find a cure, would be arrogance if not ignorance... no disease has a single fix, a sure fire for high prices at that. Exactly. +1 |
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Aperture_Science_Innovators
Advanced Cruncher United States Joined: Jul 6, 2009 Post Count: 139 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
My efforts may be just peanuts compared to Kermit's, but I have 500+ threads running on this project and am happy to continue offering my support :)
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
So shall I.
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Master KRik, please, not be so harsh on ourself though, let left good will hunting after this grand ethic riddle to Dr Aleks. As he explains itself thoroughly he is autodidact and likes solving complicated biomedical problems. The bolding word is mine. In science jargon this means that someone will retire while solving and solving. In short, don't expect this to happen in someone and therefore a fortiori in our lifetime. If you don't like me you can call eleven nine agent T, Erika. But in any case never ever push the Big Red! it's called "inside trading"...& it's banned to anyone using it or anyone selling (giving) information! just making sure you don't do it again with new post...let's do some hashtags here: #insidetrading #fbi #sec you can have an idea from the text of the involvement of dr here & companies associated to have a gamble on stock market...but it's still a gamble! but please don't advocate drs here to give you information for your benefit! & be respectful to anyone here... ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by KLiK at Jun 7, 2016 8:53:04 AM] |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
"Re: Question the ethics and legitimacy of this project for BOINC OK I hope the following can at least clarify a few things raised in these posts and give you a better idea of where I come from and why I am involved...." No one is questioning the true altruistic desire to help and to try to find treatments or cures for neglected diseases by the researchers of the Open Zika Project, Carolina Andrade, Alexander Perryman and Sean Ekins. My posting was not intended to be a personal attack. What they do is commendable. I simply question its appropriateness for BOINC. Aside from the commercial connection to this project that started this entire discussion, which was confirmed by Ekins if you carefully read his response, only, perhaps, not for his company, is the argument that its a neglected disease, as well as, the others this same team of researchers noted they wish to work on. I also question the argument that there are no incentives for for-profit companies and that big pharma. isnt working on these neglected, yet related, diseases. These are new companies and I believe may be using BOINC to play catch-up to companies that have been working on these diseases far longer. Perhaps, attempting to capitalize on the fear of Zika, which is, and has been for several months, so prevalent in the news, getting BOINC volunteers to create a shortcut for them- to give them a jump start. Right now they have nothing to form collaborative agreements or get grants based on, but once we supply them with a lot of data, they may, and probably will have possible candidates to begin studying by other collaborators who will than license it. I think if you really know whats going on with this disease, youll see that vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostics are already on the way, with at least 2-3 vaccines/therapeutics going into human clinical trials this yr. This may make you too question its place on BOINC. You may feel, the more the merrier, but with so much going on already, other projects are probably more deserving of our time. As far as Zika is concerned. Its not a neglected disease. It may have been a few years ago, when thought to be isolated and was a low priority compared to Ebola and dengue-- when only a few companies were researching it. However, since the knowledge of its effects on newborns became known and its spread to 33 countries a/o Feb, 2016, and its spread since to more including the US, its gotten lots of attention. Zika will affect most, if not all of the world; its no longer an orphan. However, none of that would have been known if others werent already working on it. Much has been learned about Zika in just the past 6-9 mos. Its known to be connected to the same mosquitos as other diseases and its part of the Flavivirus family. It can be spread by at least 2 different mosquitos. Its a threat to any female who is or ever wants to become pregnant-including small children. Anyone can get it and they have learned it can be spread by means other than a mosquito bite, so visiting an affected area isn't necessary to contract it. It also is now known to cause a serious neurological disorder in adults, as well as, its potential link to Guillain-Barre syndrome, a serious neurological disease that affects the immune system. Its believed it can cause other physical deformities in infants and possibly sudden death. There is also some evidence now that its harbored in the testes of males who have contracted the disease long after the illnesses flu-like symptoms appear to have gone, as well as living on in females affecting future pregnancies. Zikas huge and is getting a lot of attention from govts.-research and grants, academia, big pharma. and small bio-techs alike around the world. The U.S. House of Representatives approved a bill (5.18.16) that aims to combat the Zika virus but it still needs to go to the Senate. While the bill would provide $622 million to fight the virus, the dollar amount is actually less than one-third of what President Obama was seeking. Back in Feb, WHO's (World Health Organization) Dr. Kierny announced about 15 companies and groups were involved in the race to find a vaccine for the mosquito-borne virus, and there were at least two fairly advanced vaccine efforts: the U.S. National Institutes for Health*, the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and the privately-held Indian company Bharat Biotech International Limited. Bharat and others had already been working on a Zika virus vaccine, spurred by the prevalence of dengue fever and chikungungya, which are both spread by the same mosquito carriers as Zika. The NIAID and the Scripps Research Institute were searching for potential drugs, while companies including Chembio Diagnostics Inc. were working on new diagnostic tests. A/O Mar. 2, 2016, WHO said 67 companies and research institutions were already working on a number of products (31 on diagnostics, 18 on vaccines, 8 on therapeutics, 10 on vector control plus others who had announced investigating their participation including giants like Pfizer and J&J), which are at various stages of early development. No vaccine or therapeutic had yet been tested on humans. WHO also said regarding a vaccine: ..pragmatic strategies will be needed to fast-track the development of a safe and effective product. As noted above, there are numerous govt. and for-profit companies working on Zika and theyre not all small companies. SANOFI, SA, a french pharmaceutical company, is not a small drug company and were one of the first to announce their research into Zika. They responded quickly to the WHOs declaration of a worldwide public health emergency and announced the establishment of a dedicated Zika vaccine development program the following day. The company had already successfully developed vaccines for other Flaviviruses, including yellow fever, Japanese encephalitis and dengue fever. Dengue is, in fact, the closest known virus to Zika. Sanofi Pasteur said it will build on this expertise, its broad international scientific and public health collaborations, and its recent success in developing the first dengue vaccine to expedite the search for a candidate vaccine. (Sanofi Pasteur is the vaccine division of the Sanofi-Aventis Group who collaborated and developed with Acambis, Inc. the above noted vaccines, then bought Acambis out making it a wholly owned subsidiary. Dr Monath, now at NewLink Genetics, was Acambis Incs Chief Scientific Officer for 14 yrs. where he led the research & development of dengue, West Nile and yellow fever vaccines.) Entrepreneur.com in Feb.said aside from Frances Sanofi Pasteur, Japans Takeda Pharmaceutical and the USs Glaxo-Smith Kline were also working on Zika vaccines. These are also listed in WHO documentation of the Current Zika Pipeline dated 3.3.16. MERCK has a collaboration with Newlink Genetics for its research on Ebola and Zika. The two smaller biotechs leading the pack on a Zika vaccine, Inovio & NewLink Genetics, announced human clinical trials before the end of this yr. One reason research has been able to be speeded up on this epidemic is because of its relation to Dengue and others of this same mosquitos borne diseases. The NIH and the companies who were previously doing research on those, can apply what theyve learned to Zika and possibly tweak those vaccines already approved like Dengue or in trials like MERS for Zika. Ekins is right. There may not be enough money involved in some neglected diseases for big pharma to do research on their own and they were left to small bio-techs and academia. However, now, for many, big pharmas are buying up small biotechs right & left to acquire their research, as well as, supporting the research of other promising bio-techs with collaborations and advance licensing deals. It seems neglected/orphan diseases and drugs are becoming big business and competition is getting fierce. There are now numerous incentives for research in neglected, otherwise known as Orphan diseases, treatments & vaccines. Among them: 1) The desperate need to find a cure & or treatment for diseases where none is currently available 2) Tax incentives for companies working on orphan treatments & vaccines 3) Collaboration with funding from larger biotech & pharmaceutical companies Its this collaboration that helps to keep the small bio-techs, with no drugs on the market to generate income, viable and able to continue to fund their research. 4) Collaborations with research done via academia. 5) Grants available for orphan disease research and development. ie: Inovio has received about $135M in third party grants, including NIH & DARPA 6) Orphan Drug granted status means expedited review from the FDA and other Drug regulatory agencies around the world for approval, as well as, speeded up development -possibly shortened & or fewer research trials. Normal vaccine research traditionally has taken 10 yrs+/-, while some of these potential Orphan Drugs/vaccines are in Ph 3 trials or approved, in half that time or less. 7) Orphan Drug granted status means extended exclusivity of patented treatments, and vaccines, once approved. The two Smaller Biotechs most in the lead working on ZIKA and its related diseases are: INOVIO: has received about $135M in third party grants, including NIH & DARPA ZIKA Using their SynCon process, rapidly generated a synthetic vaccine candidate that shows promise. They have already generated strong immune responses in animal models (large non-human = monkeys) with their vaccine and will initiate and conduct the first human trials in 2016 for Zika. * EBOLA. Inovio is developing an Ebola preventive vaccine and treatment for those infected based on a $45 million DARPA grant received last year. In the first quarter, they reported that interim data from the phase I clinical study of INO-4212 Ebola vaccine in 75 healthy subjects showed it was safe, tolerable and generated strong T cell and antibody responses. We plan to fully analyze the data from this clinical trial and report them in a publication. We are also excited by the demonstration of the protective efficacy of our vaccine against a lethal virus challenge in several nonhuman primate challenge studies, said the CEO. MERS, or Middle East Respiratory Syndrome virus. Inovio is recruiting for its collaborative MERS vaccine trial with GeneOne Life Sciences in partnership with the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research where the trial is being conducted. The primary and secondary goal of this first-in-man phase I trial are to obtain safety and immunogenicity data. This trial represents the first and still only MERS vaccine to be tested in humans for this disease that has no approved vaccines or treatment. They expect to report interim data later this year. NEWLINK GENETICS: Has received more than $74 Million in non-dilutive grants for a global HIV vaccine, Ebola Vaccine and others vaccines & treatments where their products have an advantage- including Mers & Zika. ZIKA: Thomas P. Monath M.D., Chief Science Officer and Chief Operating Officer for the Infectious Disease Division of NewLink Genetics and an internationally-recognized expert on flaviviruses presented June 1, 2016 at "What Does the Biology of Flaviviruses Tell Us About Zika: The Importance of Fundamental Virus Biology," scientific conference focused on the Zika virus hosted by the American Society for Microbiology (ASM) in collaboration with the American Society for Virology (ASV). Title of his presentation was "Cognate Pathogenesis of Neurotropic Flaviviruses Relevance to Vaccine Development." Dr Monath has led development of new vaccines against flaviviruses including dengue, West Nile, Japanese encephalitis and yellow fever. His presentation at the ASM conference focused on the common themes in pathogenesis and vaccine development between Zika virus and other members of the flavivirus group. In Feb, 2016 they announced they expect the first Human Zika trial before the end of this year. EBOLA: 4.25.16 Awarded $21.6 Million Contract Option by BARDA (Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority of US Dept. Health & Human Services) for Ebola Vaccine Development. These funds will be used to conduct clinical bridging studies to further assess the vaccine's safety, immunogenicity and efficacy in populations different from the original testing region. It received the Best Prophylactic Vaccine award at the 15th Annual World Vaccine Congress in 2015. Their Ebola vaccine candidate was found to have 100% efficacy in an analysis of interim data from a Phase 3 ring vaccination trial in Guinea. "BARDA is providing pivotal support and commitment to accelerated development of this Ebola vaccine candidate," said the CEO. Newlinks has partnered with Merck since Nov. 2014 on the Ebola vaccine with milestone payments of $50 million as part of their agreement. CHIKUNGUNYA: Newlink published in the first quarter 2016 their novel dMAb antibody and DNA vaccine targeting the Chikungunya virus provided 100% protection against the lethal virus challenge in pre-clinical settings. MERS: Clinical trial has begun. DENGUE VIRUS, preclinical trials provided 100% protection against the lethal dengue virus challenge in laboratory animals and will now be moving into human clinical trials. A couple other companies well advanced in their area of expertise for Zika: CERUS: In Feb. 2016 received approval of their system which is effective in eliminating Zika from the blood supply. Cerus is a biomedical products company focused in the field of blood transfusion safety. The INTERCEPT Blood System is designed to reduce the risk of transfusion-transmitted infections by inactivating a broad range of pathogens such as viruses, bacteria and parasites that may be present in donated blood. The nucleic acid targeting mechanism of action of the INTERCEPT treatment is designed to inactivate established transfusion threats, such as hepatitis B and C, HIV, West Nile virus and bacteria, as well as emerging pathogens such as Chikungunya, malaria and dengue and now Zika. Up to now, the only Zika test available requires blood samples being sent off to the FDA laboratory for testing with the attendant lag time for a response. The FDA is so inundated with Zika tests, they are subbing some of the work out to a few other qualified labs. 31 Companies were cited by WHO in March as working on diagnostics for this very reason. The leader.. CHEMBIO DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEMS in Feb., 2016 WHO announced Chembio is working on a portable, rapid-results Zika test. It aimed to show from a drop of blood from a fingertip whether someone is infected. In Feb., 2016 they received a $550,000 grant from the Paul Allen Family Foundation to immediately initiate development of simple, cost-effective POC (Point of Care) diagnostic tests to identify Zika virus and related febrile illnesses. They are currently seeking approval from the Brazilian regulatory agency for their point of care test in collaboration with Bio-Manguinhos. They have already conducted tests of DPP® Zika IgM/IgG Assay with nearly a thousand clinical samples from Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Malaysia, Mexico and the United States. You can be sure applications will be forthcoming to regulatory agencies in many other countries. They also have received grants to develop a DPP® Fever Panel Assay, capable of simultaneously detecting Malaria, Dengue, Chikungunya, Ebola, Lassa, and Marburg with a single drop of blood from the fingertip. They are well-positioned to act quickly, given their ongoing collaborations with Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Brazil's Ministry of Health, and the global scientific community. So, you see, just in noting these few companies, the newly formed Open Zika Project is well behind the curve of the 67+ companies noted by WHO. The scientific community and other bio-techs in most aspects of Zika research are well ahead of them. Products are already appearing on the market with more to follow. Zika and these other related diseases are not neglected/orphaned nor in need of BOINC involvement to find and develop prospective diagnostics, vaccines or therapeutics. With several Ebola vaccines in Phase 1 to Phase 3 human trials with excellent results to date and Zika approaching or going into human clinical trials this year by several bio-techs and govt. researchers, I believe our computing time would be better served working on Mapping Cancer Markers, Uncovering Genome Mysteries, working on other diseases such as the Marburg Virus and Lassa Virus the Outsmarting Ebola project is moving on to, the Help Stop TB project and the Fight AIDS @ Home Phase 2 project. These are all truly open source medical studies and are helping the world research community make progress in understanding and fighting these diseases and their mutations. if you don't mind, I have only 2 small questions for you: 1. you didn't disclose in which of those companies you have shares? 2. why do you think that OpenZika project might badly influence your investment? thank you for answering those. |
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hristo_h_m
Cruncher Joined: Dec 10, 2008 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Master KRik, you always preach us "Don't look down".
But now after your numbered one small rhetoric question I am telling you. YOU ARE LOOKING DOWN. Now seriously. I have two flows of thinking. There is going no break ground thing, so nothing happens. I quit research because of this badly need of papers per hour and citations per minute. So lets give them some support so they not rely on government science funding for computation. And as end result someone not going to bed after ate government's stamps or coupons because missiles program has high priority status. Some one raise question that results here must be open accessed and not patented, and not using for profit. But as everybody knows who must have patent will have it, and open can be obscured, and profit will be gained. Since 1984, everybody are equal, but some numbered are more equal. So nothing new in Sodom and Gomor today. If it doesn't fit the story. I believe and hope that snowday factor will make equation divergent free. ... and If it is failed than situation will equliquiate itself. SO? HAKUNA MATATA , man. P.S. ...and if you continued asking me I'll skip WW3 question and answer directly next WW4 one. |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Master KRik, you always preach us "Don't look down". But now after your numbered one small rhetoric question I am telling you. YOU ARE LOOKING DOWN. Now seriously. I have two flows of thinking. There is going no break ground thing, so nothing happens. I quit research because of this badly need of papers per hour and citations per minute. So lets give them some support so they not rely on government science funding for computation. And as end result someone not going to bed after ate government's stamps or coupons because missiles program has high priority status. Some one raise question that results here must be open accessed and not patented, and not using for profit. But as everybody knows who must have patent will have it, and open can be obscured, and profit will be gained. Since 1984, everybody are equal, but some numbered are more equal. So nothing new in Sodom and Gomor today. If it doesn't fit the story. I believe and hope that snowday factor will make equation divergent free. ... and If it is failed than situation will equliquiate itself. SO? HAKUNA MATATA , man. P.S. ...and if you continued asking me I'll skip WW3 question and answer directly next WW4 one. well, from all of your posts...I can only conclude: 1. that i'd like to have your brain for a day...what a vacation for my mind it would be! 2. you really need to stay of drugs...all of them! |
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