| Index | Recent Threads | Unanswered Threads | Who's Active | Guidelines | Search |
| World Community Grid Forums
|
| No member browsing this thread |
|
Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 24
|
|
| Author |
|
|
RicktheBrick
Senior Cruncher Joined: Sep 23, 2005 Post Count: 206 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
I have just recently gone over a 100 year of cpu time. I still remember when I went over 10 years. At that time I never believed I would make to 100. I have always thought that results returned was the most important stats. About two months ago I was going up in the ranks in results returned. But that was before they started to use the GPU. I had about 10,000 results fewer than I have now and was in 554th position. I was thinking I just might make into page 9. Today the member in the top position of page 10 has more than 20,000 more results than the same position did two months ago so I am now behind by about 10,000 results. Well anyway instead of getting into page 9 I am afraid that I will go back to page 11. Just yesterday I found a different member that was ahead of me so I checked the yesterday results. I discovered that member had over 3,200 results so today that member has more 3,000 more results than I do. At this rate in less than 2 weeks I think there will not be any one on page 10 with less than 180,000 results. This is more like my dairy since I write this so I can check back in the near future on how fast or slow I have been doing. I am still in the top one tenth of one percent of all the members in all three categories so I have nothing to be ashamed of yet it was still nice when I was going up rather than going down.
|
||
|
|
Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7846 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
100 years of time devoted to WCG is nothing to sneeze at. You should be proud of your contribution. Remember, only one project here relies on GPU, the rest still need CPU cycles. Crunch on.
----------------------------------------Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
||
|
|
twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
I have to say that when the GPU project first started and I saw people racking up hundreds of thousands of points per day, it was disheartening. I spent quite a chunk of change this year on 4 2P servers and those, together with 3 PC's was only pulling down about 50-60k ppd.
----------------------------------------If you're at all familiar with the cost of server hardware, you can imagine how much of an investment that was and therefore just how much it hurt to see that. It felt like a kick in the gut. But then I realized that the cost of a high end GPU like an Powercolor HD 7950 was around $350 and that even if I bought several of these, the cost was still a fraction of what I'd already spent on the servers. Fortunately I had the wherewithal to make such expenditures on the project and I was able to add several such GPU's to my existing rigs, but I still remember how crestfallen I felt to see some of the numbers other people were racking up - even knowing that soon enough I would be among them. Personally I can see this becoming a point of contention among participants here to the extent that we have ongoing GPU projects. The high end GPU's are mainly used by gamers or for HPC (high performance computing). There really aren't many other reasons to own them. That's somewhat true for a high end computer too, but I think to a much lesser degree since it can also perform other duties such a file and media serving, home office duties, etc. So at some point, if we have a consistent flow of GPU projects, a lot people who don't invest in GPU hardware are going to end up feeling left behind and that is going to be terrible for morale I think. I don't know what can be done about it though since the simple fact is that the GPU's really are so much more powerful when given the types of algorithms that they're good at processing. But it's something we need to start thinking about. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Dec 19, 2012 4:46:18 AM] |
||
|
|
alver
Senior Cruncher Joined: Nov 30, 2007 Post Count: 245 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
I agree with much of the above. I consider myself an "old timer" cruncher (not to be confused with a "big hitter") - I've been running an average of between 12 and 15 cores for years, and most of them are crunching 24x365.
----------------------------------------Stats-wise, I was (by points) just about to hit the top 1,500 worldwide, and the top 50 in the UK. Then the GPU project was released, and I've been slipping back ever since. I crunch mostly for the science, and clearly the fact that people with powerful GPUs are now able to utilise them for cancer research is a very good thing. But it's a shame for us stats lovers that we suddenly start falling back so suddenly. Given that most projects can only be done on a CPU, maybe it's time CPU and GPU had separate points/credit scores? ![]() (previously known as 'proxima' on SETI, UD, distributed folding, FaD, and Rosetta) |
||
|
|
GIBA
Ace Cruncher Joined: Apr 25, 2005 Post Count: 5374 Status: Offline |
I have just recently gone over a 100 year of cpu time. I still remember when I went over 10 years. At that time I never believed I would make to 100. I have always thought that results returned was the most important stats. About two months ago I was going up in the ranks in results returned. But that was before they started to use the GPU. I had about 10,000 results fewer than I have now and was in 554th position. I was thinking I just might make into page 9. Today the member in the top position of page 10 has more than 20,000 more results than the same position did two months ago so I am now behind by about 10,000 results. Well anyway instead of getting into page 9 I am afraid that I will go back to page 11. Just yesterday I found a different member that was ahead of me so I checked the yesterday results. I discovered that member had over 3,200 results so today that member has more 3,000 more results than I do. At this rate in less than 2 weeks I think there will not be any one on page 10 with less than 180,000 results. This is more like my dairy since I write this so I can check back in the near future on how fast or slow I have been doing. I am still in the top one tenth of one percent of all the members in all three categories so I have nothing to be ashamed of yet it was still nice when I was going up rather than going down. Congratulations Rick. It is a terrific mark. Few people (compared with WCG total) reached so long time in contribution until today. ![]()
Cheers ! GIB@
![]() Join BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID team and be very happy ! http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=DF99KT5DN1 |
||
|
|
GeraldRube
Master Cruncher United States Joined: Nov 20, 2004 Post Count: 2153 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
100 years of time devoted to WCG is nothing to sneeze at. You should be proud of your contribution. Remember, only one project here relies on GPU, the rest still need CPU cycles. Crunch on. Cheers Dittos to that--its good to see folks with staying power--hopefully all this will help with sickness in the world ![]() |
||
|
|
Jozef J
Cruncher Joined: Sep 24, 2012 Post Count: 45 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
YES! its time to --- CPU and GPU separate points/credit scores---
----------------------------------------Some people use the modified app in combination with ATI hardware, which gives you a lot of points. CPU users harder to get more points. Badges are based on only the length of time in a project, it is also frust. So what is meaning the retrieved of points? None...nothing ![]() |
||
|
|
branjo
Master Cruncher Slovakia Joined: Jun 29, 2012 Post Count: 1892 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
Some people use their own HW to accumulate points/credits/run time/results (and pay bills for electricity), some not. Do we have to split also this kinds of crunching? Do we have to split crunchers rankings also based on OS? And based on CPU (e.g. your CPU's Jozef_J are much more powerful than CPU's of majority of crunchers, so don't put yourself in the same bag with other users with lower CPU's)? And based on internet connection? Laughable.
----------------------------------------Points and credits are points and credits. Regardless on OS, CPU nor any other valid HW. Just keep smiling and crunching. Cheers and NI! ![]() Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006 ![]() |
||
|
|
twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
There are good points on both sides and I think the bottom line on points has to be that if you want to be competitive then you have to be prepared to compete - whatever that might entail.
----------------------------------------Branjo raises a good point about people co-opting work or school machines under their own accounts for example. Sure, that doesn't seem fair and if this were some sort of real world competition, it certainly wouldn't be, but the fact of the matter is that it's not. Ultimately the objective is to use spare cpu cycles for science. The fact that some of us happen to be in it at least partly for the points and rankings is just a side show and we have to try to keep that in mind. My point was that the effect of the advent of the GPU projects has been dramatic and overwhelming and therefore to some extent disheartening - even for people who realize and accept everything that I've just said. We've had a few people post about this and I'm sure more will notice as the months and GPU projects wear on. Sure, it was never really a level playing field for a variety of reasons, but I don't thing anyone disputes that high-end GPU's really upset the balance tremendously - at least as to ppd. And again, sure that shouldn't matter, but on some level it does. For example, just go thought the boinc stats and see how many people's output has dropped to zero since the gpu project started. I've noted a few. I don't know if that's just coincidence but I'm thinking not since these were pretty high volume producers previously - in the 40-80k range per day. Do we really want to lose people like that? Maybe it's inevitable but it's something worthy of discussion at least I would think. ![]() ![]() |
||
|
|
Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges:
|
RicktheBrick all my congratulations.
---------------------------------------- 100 years is a major milestone. You are 416th for runtime on over 600'000 members. You are in the top 0.0007 %. That is really excellent. I feel here that GPU crunching has created some frustration in terms of points ranking. Let us see the two sides of the issue: 1) The Crunchers When you go on the member statistics you are free to check your rank either on points, runtime or results. Everybody should find the suitable ranking system they want to use. Badges are given not on points but on years of runtime which are less dependent on the number of results or points, which is correct as you get rewarded for the time you make your CPU available fast or slow. What is frustrating for many is that there are no more badges for over two years of runtime. For those under that limit, badge collection is a nice and motivating target. But when the 2 years milestone is passed no more badges. What remains is points and results. These last two are correlated. In GPU Grid you have badges related to credits (boinc points) but up to an enormous number of 10 Billion. It is normal because you have only GPU and only Nvidia so everybody has the same standard that is points. That is a total of 20 badges. This make it challenging and motivating for everybody at every level. In WCG we could very well keep the badges on runtime but add many more for example 5, 10, 25, 50, 75, 100, 250, 500, 750 up to 1000 years. This would keep the runtime ranking motivation indipendently of points and results. Why consider dicsriminating GPU crunchers from CPU crunchers. After all we should then also discriminate between those having a unique standard 4 core CPU against those having double socket hexa cores or octo cores. Between two CPU only rigs you can go from 10'000 to 100'000 points a day. It is a ten time difference, GPU style. And why not discriminate between those who only crunch with their desktop with Boinc set up as a screen saver only, and those that have in their home multiple desktop farms or clusters running 24/7. 2) The Scientists Let's say that they are the most important. They bring projects do the science and the research and need our crunching help. They do not care about runtime, points, badges. The only thing they care is to have their project done as quickly as possible. In short to have their WUs crunched as quickly as possible. They care to get the most "results". And indeed results are correlated with points, but this is purely a by-product. Results are important points are not. Now the scientist in fact does not really care how you crunch it. If he can use a GPU to get more crunching power and work done he will use it if he can, and be grateful to any cruncher small, large, GPU, CPU you name it who simply contributes according to his means and will. 3) Conclusion I would like to mention that there are a large number of members that contribute regularly over the years, and since many years on the various projects. You do not see them, they often do not appear in the forums, but they bring an invaluable contribution because there is a large number of them. The total amount of WUs crunched by each of them may not seem very large but what is important for them is the simple fact of contributing. They have their own personal motivations and do not care at all about any measurement or ranking system. Those of you that are frustrated because of the ranking, the points etc. give importance to a form of competition, otherwise you would not care. This is also an excellent and powerful form of motivation to crunch more and more. Then if as I understand competing with points is important to you welcome to the race, do not whine and complain but act. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Dec 19, 2012 7:51:43 PM] |
||
|
|
|