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Category: Community
Forum: Chat Room
Thread: Massacre! |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 29
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
...and the point I am trying to make is if you don't have a gun you cannot shoot anyone. Years ago it was sensible to have an armed 'militia' to defend your country, those were the days of hand to hand combat. Now countries fight at long range with unmanned drones etc, the need for an armed populace is old fashioned and out dated. Unless you're in Syria.  They are fighting themselves, not other countries, and it still applies, if they did not have access to guns they would have to stab, beat each other to death, much less casualties.  |
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nanoprobe
Master Cruncher Classified Joined: Aug 29, 2008 Post Count: 2998 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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the need for an armed populace is old fashioned and out dated. Really? I hope you remember that if, God forbid, someone tries to break into your house while you're asleep. You can tell them they don't need to be armed to rob you, or kill you or whatever and you don't need to be armed to defend yourself and/or your loved ones.
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.
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Bearcat
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 6, 2007 Post Count: 2803 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Just to be clear, all of the damage was done with a long rifle The news reported in the first few hours after the attack that the rifle was not used, then the next day it was reported it was only the rifle used. Parents of the deceased children were shown only photos to identify. This is a tragedy, no doubt. All the TRUE facts need to be shown before any solutions can be debated and applied.
Crunching for humanity since 2007!
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
the need for an armed populace is old fashioned and out dated. Really? I hope you remember that if, God forbid, someone tries to break into your house while you're asleep. You can tell them they don't need to be armed to rob you, or kill you or whatever and you don't need to be armed to defend yourself and/or your loved ones. |
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NAP2614
Master Cruncher Joined: Mar 27, 2007 Post Count: 2546 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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And yet the UK police still have armed response units that need to be called in when there is the danger of an armed assailant - often after the fact as I understand it. I'm not going to go hunting for statistics but I do know that there is a black market for firearms in the UK - especially remilitarized show pieces. These are demilitarized firearms sold to collectors that any good machinist can then take remilitarize. So I'm not sure I'm all that convinced.
----------------------------------------I think a more critical difference is the social welfare system where someone with the mental problems someone like the shooter here had probably would have received treatment without having to be first subjected to involuntary commitment. And it's not like his mother couldn't afford to get treatment for him. She was getting over $24k in alimony per month - yes, per month - from her ex husband. But this kid was still allowed to fly under the radar. I don't know if that would have been permitted someplace like the UK. So ultimately this is less about guns and more about people. But to give one more example about how guns can save lives, in the mall shooting here just a week before, do you know how that was stopped? A person with a concealed carry permit confronted the shooter. He never even fired his weapon, he was afraid of hitting bystanders. But just by confronting the shooter, he turned the gun on himself and shot himself. THAT is how that massacre ended. So you have to wonder what would have happened if the principal or a teacher at Newtown had been armed.   [Edit 2 times, last edit by twilyth at Dec 18, 2012 9:20:38 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
.....So ultimately this is less about guns and more about people................ I do agree with you there, but, also making the acquisition of the means harder also plays a major part. |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Massacre in Brazilian farmland (April 2017): nine dead in Amazon's worst land-related killings in decades
In April this year, four armed men drive past small settlements in Colniza, Brazil. They torture residents and kill nine of them. It is one of the many crimes that are the result of systematic austerity and legislative changes that declare the Amazon rainforest and its inhabitants outlawed. Shocking news for the Amazon rainforest. Brute force and killings are the 'new normal' in the hunt for valuable woods. Wood that also ends up in the Netherlands. Yep, there's no denying. The client for the bloodbath in Colniza is, according to the prosecutor, the owner of two sawmills. This owner had previously been fined for trading in illegal timber. There's a European timber law. Wood importers must not put timber on the European market unless they have done everything to make the risk of illegal timber negligible. For the European timber law, timber is illegal if it has been harvested in violation of the applicable legislation in the country of harvest. And certainly illegal it is in this case, in situations where armed criminals use violence and threats against those who are entitled to the use of the forest. Massacre in Brazilian farmland highlights brutal struggle Nine dead in Amazon's worst land-related killings in decades Massacre in a Peasant Settlement in Inland Brazil: Nine Dead (Dutch) Bloedbad van Colniza: negen Braziliaa... vermoord in sojaconflict (Portuguese) Massacre em assentamento no Mato Grosso mata dez (Portuguese) Massacre deixa pelo menos 10 mortos na área rural de Colniza (MT) |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Inasmuch as I agree with you, adriverhoef, that what goes on in the Brazilian hardwood rain forests is deplorable, it at least has a motive I can understand - not condone at all, but understand in my head:
Greed The perpetrators would never dream of taking some European timber law into consideration. You can say that Jean-Claude Juncker and other European Union politicians and 'leaders' never killed anybody, but you cannot convince me that they are themselves beyond: Greed What happened when bjdbest started this thread in Newtown, Connecticut, and many other random shootings are in another category in my opinion. There is no motive that we shall ever know of. These tragedies has even led to a new concept: to go postal. The Las Vegas gunman killed off scarily many people with scarily many weapons a couple of months ago not to mention Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian who finished off 69 mainly youngsters from many countries singlehandedly. The trigger in most of these cases is probably: Mental disease I’m not for guns (cannot specify or argue) least of all in the hands of people who are beyond themselves. But people who want guns will get them. I don’t believe they can be controlled away from those who cannot handle them – and who knows: the one who is capable and approved today may have gun nuts tomorrow. In Denmark we recently had a shooting spree with several killings among gangs who are at a war footing with each other. Their guns are not licensed. They have them anyway. They buy them legally in Slovakia. And their motive: The market place for illegal drugs and ultimately: Greed Then we have the new kid on the block: Killing by trucks or vans not to mention airplanes and random explosive attacks. The motive here is hardly greed. Hardly any known mental disease either. So far I have met no reasonable explanation I can understand in my head. ? And in Moscow they just revealed a statue of Mikhail Kalashnikov, the Автомат Калашникова inventor. A whopping number of more 100 million copies have been manufactured so far. To fire an AK47 is unlawful in Denmark even at shooting ranges, and so is import and ownership. |
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