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Category: Support
Forum: BOINC Agent Support
Thread: Cruncher new build |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 32
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hi all!!
----------------------------------------Not sure if its the proper place to post, I couldn't find a "new build" or hardware section... I am not expecting my current multi-purpose box to last more than 6 to 8 months and as a result of this, I decided to slowly consider my next build. Since I'm now part of WCG & GPUGRID, I'd like my next rig to be capable of super-crunching! I am not a gamer at all, and not planning to be any time soon. If I just had to build a new machine I'd know exactly what to get, but since I want to optimize the build for highest performance and stability my money can buy, I need to ask this community for a few pointers, and first before I submit inquiries about specific parts, I need to clear up a few fundamental questions I am having. First I should mention my overall expectations and constraints: -Overall price: $3,000CAD (including tax, and shipping) -Will be running 24/7 (or almost) -Will be running Linux (very likely Slackware 64 bit) -No need for PCI addon cards (sound, ethernet, etc). ******** CPU: Desktop or server CPU? (i7/Phenom, or Xeon/Opteron)? The more I read on the web, the more I am confused... I've seen people recommending server CPU's for their performance and enhanced threading capabilities (better share of system resources between threads and cores) and the fact that they are meant to run 24/7, while some other people are recommending a high end desktop CPU for their high performance and price tag. If I had LOTS of money, I'd probably go for a dual socket Xeon board with 2 X5600 series, but these beasts are easily $1,300+ each in Canada and its way over my budget, and I really wonder if they are that worthwhile for crunching tasks. CPU: AMD or Intel? I've built machines with both brands in the past, I used to be "Intel" until I built my last machine with an Athlon II X4 640 CPU which exceeded my expectations for a price tag that was much lower than Intel. All benchmarks I've seen so far are clearly showing that Intel's high end CPU's are more performing than AMD's high end equivalents, but some benchmarks are not very convincing with 5-7% performance differences for almost 400% price tag difference. Again, if money wasn't a concern at all, I'd go for the super duper king of the hill (Core i7-990X Extreme Edition) but at over $1,000 price tag for a single chip, no thanks! On AMD's side, for the desktop market, their Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz seems to be the best they have for now. They just released the 8 core Bulldozer CPU but its performance is very disappointing (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043.html) so I think I would hold on for now with this one. CPU: Overclocking or not? I have never overclocked anything before (did not have to and without watercooling, I was afraid to burn something). DO you guys overclocked your CPU's? If so, have you noticed stability problems or crunching problems (bad results)? GPU: Considering that I will be running Slackware-Linux 64bit on this cruncher rig, I am heavily leaning toward Nvidia for their better (in my experience) driver support and the CUDA framework which I am already using on my XPS laptop. I am leaning toward a quad SLI setup with GTX580's and will wait a bit until their price tag falls below $350 each. Nvidia could very well release the 600 Series soon so I'll stay tuned for the price. GPU: For crunching tasks, especially on projects like GPUGRID, is GPU RAM very important? In other words, given the choice between a 1GB GTX580 and a 3GB GTX580, should I spend the extra to get the additional 2GB RAM? Are crunching tasks effectively using the onboard RAM? RAM: Are you guys recommending that I load the mobo with as much RAM as it can take or is it a waste of money? I am leaning toward a minimum of 16GB of RAM, my current crunching rig is crunching for both WCG & GPUGRID and with my current settings, WCG's tasks are not taking more than 300MB of virtual memory while the task from GPUGRID is taking a 16.25GB chunk of virtual memory... Water cooling or not? If overclocking will provide higher performance at the cost of increased electricity usage, I am ok with this but I am not entirely comfortable to overclock without aggressive cooling, especially on a $3000 machine. My main confusion is regarding the CPU type VS price. For example, I could go for a single high-end desktop CPU with 3 or 4 GPU's in SLI, or go for a server CPU with 2 GPU's in SLI. My ideal configuration would be like 2 Xeons (L3366) with 4 way SLI using the EVGA Classified SR2 mobo, but the overall price tag is way above my budget, even for a low end CPU... In the hope I will receive some guidance and pointers from this valuable community, I am continuing my research! Thanks! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 15, 2011 6:19:30 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
One thing to consider is a custom build pc company. They often have configuration schemes that allow you to select processor case, cooling fans etc and also select what ram and processor go with each motherboard along with many other options. Shupping can be expensive say 75 dollars for ground in the US unless you pick the model with free shipping. Not sure what it would cost to send to outside the US a although I hear it can be quite high unless the shipping company has a deal to make it much lower.
----------------------------------------You can then contrast the price they quote for everything plus the freebies with say what it would cost to buy each component individually then assemble it. As for liquid cooling these days it's a lot easier with kits that are prebuilt plus being easy to install (you just put the pumping fan over the cpu and attach a radiator to either a rear or top fan and the kit lasts for about five years. The fluid you do not change out or have to replace it's a mixture of water and some other chemicals that do not leak out plus the unit being sealed it does't evaporate due to the heat it just goes back to being liquid. There are even fans built for gaming rigs that are air cooled. Some of them are quite cool looking. Plus you have cases for gaming pcs with multiple fans. Mine has six case fans and is actually whisper quiet without paying for sound absorbing. Yes you can have your custom pc maker put in sound absorbing measures such as gaskets for the power supply unit. As for overclocking a number of cpus as well as motherboards and ram meant for gaming are built for overclocking to a certain extent. My motherboard has an overclock button that boosts it by several percent. If I had a more expensive cpu I could overclock it a lot more by using software that came with the motherboard. But the button is a safe percentage. Custom build pc companies use RAM that can be safely overclocked and you can even pay them to set the overclocking parameters say 5-33% and test them before sending the pc to you. I suggest you look at cyberpowerpc.com They often have deals and specials and you have a wealth of customization options. Plus you can see the prices they charge and compare them to buying every thing individually. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 15, 2011 7:06:37 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
There are in fact several threads about PC builds and tips, just search for them. For example take a look at this lengthy thread.
On the CPU department, the overall favorite is the Intel i7-2600(K if you plan to overclock it). 16GB of RAM is more than enough for WCG, but I don't know the requirements for GPUGRID. |
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Bearcat
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 6, 2007 Post Count: 2803 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I myself don't over clock but am a dually fan. My last 4 were duallies, sold 2 of the lower ones. I only use xeons as they are built for 24/7. Currently using westmere. Not cheap.
----------------------------------------If you want to OC, go with a sandy bridge with a mobo that's using UEFE. Easy for over clocking. The SB chips can OC on air pretty high. Plus are easy on the energy. Bulldozer, from what I've read so far, bombed out and are not worth it. Hopefully AMD can rebound and fix this. New chips from intel will be released soon, so hopefully drop prices down on older ones. As for GPU, with WCG getting close to crunching with GPU, might want to wait a little to see what specs they require. Have done GPU crunching in the past so recommend the highest memory you can afford. Hopefully, most gpu's will be able to crunch here. My ATI 6950 is waiting patiently. Suggest you head over to www.xtremesystems.org for some good information on building a good cruncher. Good folks over there. I prefer to build one to fire up and check on it once in awhile without worrying if it crashes or burned something up. Just get the highest frequency chip I can afford. Good luck. Just to add, you can build a dually setup but run one processor until your ready to add a second processor. One of my rigs is set up that way now. Cost about 2500.
Crunching for humanity since 2007!
---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Bearcat at Oct 16, 2011 3:33:30 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Thanks guys for your precious replies! Very helpful. With the tsunami of computer parts out there right now, its getting tougher and tougher to build a system tuned for a specific purpose..
----------------------------------------I am considering the following setup, but above my $3000 budget. That being said, the 3k limit was if I want to build the rig before January. If I wait, lets say until march or April, I will be able to afford the extra money. On the CPU side, I used to be an Intel man. Then AMD pleased me for their low costs and relatively high performance. Right now, I just feel they are too much behind. On the other hand, I feel Intel knows about this and use this fact to leverage their price tags. A consumer CPU at $1000??? Give me a break! Until they show up with a quantum CPU or some black matter powered chip, I'm not spending above $600 for a single chip, and even at $600 it better be a beast. So as of today, I have a favorite rig, and 4 other very potential candidates: Favorite rig: 2X Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB SATA3 (6Gbps) for 4TB of mass storage. 4X EVGA GTX580 FTW Hydro Copper 2 3GB GPU's 1X Silverstone ST1500 1500W 80+ Silver Certified PSU 2X 6 sticks of 4GB each of Corsair Vengeance (DDR3 1333) for a total of 48GB RAM (GPUGRID seems to use an awful amount of RAM, on my current machine, its 4GB are maxed out and swapping over 12GB)... EVGA Classified SR-2 Mobo (this is the only dual socket mobo that has support for 4 way SLI) 2X Intel 320 Series 40GB SSD (in RAID 0 for high speed). I was also considering a Revo Drove from OCZ but its price tag is too much... 2X Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere 2.4GHz Quad Core CPU (I might only go for one at first until the price falls and then buy the 2nd) ------------------------------------- Total: with tax and shipping on newegg.ca: $5,812.42 Alternative rig 1: 2X Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB SATA3 (6Gbps) for 4TB of mass storage. 4X EVGA GTX580 1.5GB GPU's 1X Silverstone ST1500 1500W 80+ Silver Certified PSU 2X 6 sticks of 4GB each of GSkill Ripjaw (DDR3 1333) for a total of 48GB RAM EVGA Classified SR-2 Mobo (this is the only dual socket mobo that has support for 4 way SLI) 2X Intel 320 Series 40GB SSD (in RAID 0 for high speed). I was also considering a Revo Drove from OCZ but its price tag is too much... 2X Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere 2.4GHz Quad Core CPU (I might only go for one at first until the price falls and then buy the 2nd) ------------------------------------- Total: with tax and shipping on newegg.ca: $5,113.52 Alternative rig 2: 2X Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB SATA3 (6Gbps) for 4TB of mass storage. 4X EVGA GTX580 1.5GB GPU's 1X Silverstone ST1500 1500W 80+ Silver Certified PSU 6 sticks of 4GB each of Corsair Vengeance (DDR3 1333) for a total of 24GB RAM Gigabyte GA-X58A-OC 2X Intel 320 Series 40GB SSD (in RAID 0 for high speed). I was also considering a Revo Drove from OCZ but its price tag is too much... Intel i7-980 Gulftown 3.33GHz 6-cores CPU (blazing fast performance but $$) Also can OC pretty well I read. ------------------------------------- Total: with tax and shipping on newegg.ca: $4,431.83 Alternative rig 3: 2X Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB SATA3 (6Gbps) for 4TB of mass storage. 4X EVGA GTX580 1.5GB GPU's 1X Silverstone ST1500 1500W 80+ Silver Certified PSU 4 sticks of 4GB each of Corsair Vengeance (DDR3 1333) for a total of 16GB RAM Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 2X Intel 320 Series 40GB SSD (in RAID 0 for high speed). I was also considering a Revo Drove from OCZ but its price tag is too much... AMD Phenom II X6 Thuban Black Edition 3.3GHz ------------------------------------- Total: with tax and shipping on newegg.ca: $3,846.77 Alternative rig 4: 2X Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB SATA3 (6Gbps) for 4TB of mass storage. 4X EVGA GTX580 1.5GB GPU's 1X Silverstone ST1500 1500W 80+ Silver Certified PSU 4 sticks of 4GB each of Corsair Vengeance (DDR3 1333) for a total of 16GB RAM ASUS P6T7 WS Supercomputer Mobo 2X Intel 320 Series 40GB SSD (in RAID 0 for high speed). I was also considering a Revo Drove from OCZ but its price tag is too much... Intel i7-980 Gulftown 3.33GHz 6-cores CPU (blazing fast performance but $$) Also can OC pretty well I read. ------------------------------------- Total: with tax and shipping on newegg.ca: $4,571.83 All it boils down to (for now) is "am I going for dual socket or single socket" and "am I going for server grade or gaming grade CPU". I like the idea of dual socket for later upgrade. Buy one CPU at first, and later on, add a second one. Also, if I am not wrong, the Xeons are meant to run 24/7 at high efficiency. I also think that you can upgrade them later on without changing the mobo. They accept more RAM as well. Am I right? [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 16, 2011 8:44:03 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Your case is also very important when selecting. Certain cases are much better then others due to not only the number of fans but also the airflow through the case plus how easy it is to switch things in and out.
Plus certain motherboards only fit in certain cases such as the ATX-EX which is a huge mother board that only fits in full towers. Also what is your cooling for the cpu? |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
If I go for the Xeons, probably not overclocking them so stock cooling (air) but if I go for the i7 or Phenom, I will probably OC them and use watercooling.
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Even if you don't overclock the xenos there are air coolers that will help keep them drastically cool and even cool down the mother board. Depending upon the air cooler you get for the cpu it can even cool down the ram.
There are also air coolers meant for ram stacks. Some of the larger ram kits come with one. Plus that link I listed often times they do a free upgrade to 1600 mhz ram and it's usually corsair or kingston hyperx. |
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sk..
Master Cruncher http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Post Count: 2324 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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GPU: For crunching tasks, especially on projects like GPUGRID, is GPU RAM very important? In other words, given the choice between a 1GB GTX580 and a 3GB GTX580, should I spend the extra to get the additional 2GB RAM? Are crunching tasks effectively using the onboard RAM? No need for 3GB GDDR5 - 1.5GB is sufficient, and then some. Base any single CPU system on the 6core/12thread i7-3930k (or similar), these will be quad channel DDR3-1600MHz, support SATA3, PCIE3.0 (and some may have 4 slots). Slot speed is very important, many boards say x16 but are only two by X8, the third slot is x4 and the fourth is x1 (too slow). Get a good PSU, a reliable drive for the operating system and a solid state drive for Boinc. Overclocking will be easy, just up the turbo a few notches - that's it. Good cooling; heatsink, fans to front side and rear a must, especially if your going for 4 big GPU's. At this stage I would just buy one GTX570 and wait for Kepler; investing in 4 GTX580's seems a bit much when the 28nm Kepler might be 4months away. [Edit 2 times, last edit by skgiven at Oct 17, 2011 8:52:07 AM] |
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Bearcat
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 6, 2007 Post Count: 2803 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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If your going to use xeons, the E series is only 5.86 GT/s where the X series are 6.4 GT/s. Not sure if that's an issue for you or not. Am running a pair of E5640's in one rig doing fine, but looking to replace these for Hexes once I sell them.
----------------------------------------Here is an link I found over at xtremesystems that's interesting about bulldozer. If it's true, bulldozer may in fact be a good chip after all. Read the entire article... http://quinetiam.com/?p=2356 .
Crunching for humanity since 2007!
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