Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 73
Posts: 73   Pages: 8   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 12223 times and has 72 replies Next Thread
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

The biggist issue I see with GPU is lack of a standard, i.e. CUDA v OpenCL and just who will be supporting this app, links to the FAQ's are posted in at least 3000 places and 98% of the CPU problems posted can be solved via the FAQ's, now add 2 GPUs, 20 or so driver versions, untold number of cpu/gpu/os variations and all I see is a support nightmare and user problems. Now if Nvidia and ATI were to supply a free of charge support tech to both the devolopers and the users, then this may happen, as it stands now, they are too busy fighting for the "Standard" and market share. maybe one or both manufactures can join IBM in this.

Have seen this same fight to many times, Beta V VHS, USB V Firewire, Mac V MS, The better system does not always win
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jun 4, 2011 7:32:42 AM]
[Jun 4, 2011 7:23:22 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
robertmiles
Senior Cruncher
US
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Post Count: 445
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

1. It costs money to program software. GPU coding does not come free and in the 3 years that I have been here, I am waiting to hear from 1, just 1, person who is ready to step up to the plate and do the work. In the time it takes for the geeks to code new systems, the scientists can have actual results they can use in their research.



Well, here's one.

Unfortunately, when I was young, I studied and invested my income rather than spending it all on wine, women and song. Consequently, I have qualifications and assets.

Since I'm now over 40, and hence a curmudgeon, I have been unable to locate employment for nearly 10 years. Because of the assets, which I cannot liquidate, I am excluded from Social Security payments and am living on my dwindling savings. Since I don't get Social Security payments, recruitment agents don't make as much money from me as they would placing green "new grads" so they're not interested - and the people who want IT work done insist on using agents, not recruiting direct.

Consequently, I don't actually have the money to upgrade my system. My old core2Duo does what it can, and even my GT210 manages to process a dozen or so SETI units each day, despite those who believe I should get a newer GPU for THEIR convenience.

I haven't touched C since I got my degree in 1985. I haven't got involved in BOINC development because frankly, the documentation is gobbledegook. There's no map of HOW the system works - a block diagram, for instance - and no apparent guide to where particular modules which handle particular aspects may be located. It all appears to be an exercise in clever use of terminology.

My particular interest would be to have ALL of the returns used - not have to recrunch any positions at all. Quite which magic modules to choose I'd have no idea since there appears to be no guide. Quite which C compiler to use isn't specified. Where is the free compiler-download link? I certainly can't afford to buy a compiler solely for this purpose...


You might try what I'm now doing - learning more computer languages and volunteering to help a BOINC project with their screensaver (mainly to get an introduction into BOINC-related programming and to help attract more participants for that BOINC project, not because it will help their scientific efforts any more directly).

I'm now over 60 and retired, so at least I have plenty of time for this.

As for what compiler to use, expect that to vary depending on which BOINC project you're trying to help, but with a bias toward those that are free (such as the Cygwin family for Windows and the Gnu family for Linux) since most BOINC projects have a rather low budget available.

http://cygwin.com/

As for having all returns used, don't expect that to completely happen as long as there are people who fake returns to try to increase their credits faster. However, some BOINC projects have validator programs that check the quality of the returns, and compare them to the previous results from the same computer, in order to decide how likely it is that they need to be compared to results from another copy of the same workunit instead of immediately accepting that set of returns.

We appear to be moving toward a standard for GPU use, just not far enough along yet.

Both Nvidia and AMD/ATI, the major players in the GPU chip market, are planning to switch to OpenCL.

BOINC is not offering much support for OpenCL GPU use yet, but there are plans for that to be added in the 6.14.* series of versions.

I've found that SOME of the tools for compiling for Nvidia GPUs are free, but specific to compiling for their chips. You may want to search for more details at:

http://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-toolkit-sdk
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by robertmiles at Jun 4, 2011 12:10:36 PM]
[Jun 4, 2011 10:59:57 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
robertmiles
Senior Cruncher
US
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Post Count: 445
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?


Hi bono vox,

In case it's useful information, I have a GT 430, which I bought for work purposes but which crunches when I'm not doing development work on it. The GT 430 is the lowest end of the Fermi line (has only 96 cores), but it is inexpensive ($79 when I bought it in Jan.), it doesn't require its own power supply, and it draws only 49W when going full tilt. It also runs cool, so I expect to be able to keep it crunching all summer.

I am looking forward to the new CUDA 4.0 apps at GPUgrid, because right now the GT 430 is slow on GPUgrid WUs. (It can reliably crunch even the extra long-running ones in plenty of time, just not as fast as the big guys.) I also crunch Milky Way on it once in a while since it can do double precision.

Kate


Thank you Kate. That is a good suggestion. I'll put the GT430 on my wish list :) In July I'll make my final decision.


I've found my GTS 450 adequate for both GPUGRID and Milkyway@Home. Chosen partly because it requires only perhaps 1 watt more power than the 9800 GT I used previously.

Nvidia doesn't make it clear whether their GeForce GT 420 - OEM and GeForce 405 - OEM are new low ends to the Fermi family or not. The OEM implies that they are not sold separately, though.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 3 times, last edit by robertmiles at Jun 4, 2011 11:37:06 AM]
[Jun 4, 2011 11:17:12 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
robertmiles
Senior Cruncher
US
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Post Count: 445
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

From Mysteron347:

Well, here's one.

Unfortunately, when I was young, I studied and invested my income rather than spending it all on wine, women and song. Consequently, I have qualifications and assets.

Since I'm now over 40, and hence a curmudgeon, I have been unable to locate employment for nearly 10 years. Because of the assets, which I cannot liquidate, I am excluded from Social Security payments and am living on my dwindling savings. Since I don't get Social Security payments, recruitment agents don't make as much money from me as they would placing green "new grads" so they're not interested - and the people who want IT work done insist on using agents, not recruiting direct.

I haven't touched C since I got my degree in 1985. I haven't got involved in BOINC development because frankly, the documentation is gobbledegook. There's no map of HOW the system works - a block diagram, for instance - and no apparent guide to where particular modules which handle particular aspects may be located. It all appears to be an exercise in clever use of terminology.


I've also been unemployeed close to 10 years. Since this was due to a stroke that left me unable to drive to work and back, I've been getting Social Security disability benefits, though.

I've found some information on parallel programming jobs that pay well but are likely to be at rather remote locations, such as oil drilling sites. Are you interested?

If so, you might visit your local unemployment office and ask what they know about financing options for getting another degree (specializing in parallel programming) so you can attract more attention in the job market. If no nearby schools offer such degrees, note that there are several online universities to check also.
[Jun 4, 2011 1:41:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mysteron347
Senior Cruncher
Australia
Joined: Apr 28, 2007
Post Count: 179
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

Thanks for the sentiment, Robert. Sympathise with your situation - the quacks reckon the only thing that's saving me from the same fate is the little green pills. Or maybe the brown ones...

I'm situated in Perth, Western Australia, so commuting may be a small obstacle. I'm intrigued about why any variety of programming would need to be performed on-site on a oil rig.

When I say that the federal government offers no help, what I mean is that they ACTIVELY attempt to get you off of their system - delete you with no notification and find creative ways of keeping you off of the unemployment list.

The extent to which the local job-finding office may help is that they will allow you to read the newspaper and use their computers to access the internet any time you like and for free. That's it - nothing more. The fact that it costs more in fuel to get to their office than the cost of a newspaper (and does anyone in IT advertise in newspapers any more?) and that my machines are better than theirs appears irrelevant.

I'd considered getting more qualifications, but having dealt with some recent "graduates" I really see modern degrees as being little more than fancy fees-receipts, distributed according to the demographics of the squeaky wheels. Employers seem to be intimidated by an extensive work history and prefer a "new grad" - green, but cheap (on an hourly basis...) Sadly, more qualifications, if I could afford to obtain them, would seem to be fated to make the situation worse.

I'll claim no exclusivity in this dilemma. I don't believe it's confined to IT either, or Australia for that matter. What's important to the Blues and the Buffs is votes and the power - not the welfare of the community and the waste of talent, experience and education that their policies cause.
[Jun 6, 2011 6:18:36 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
BSD
Senior Cruncher
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Post Count: 224
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

... having dealt with some recent "graduates" I really see modern degrees as being little more than fancy fees-receipts ...
A few years ago, I ran into a recent four year college I.T. graduate who didn't know how to open a desktop computer case. d oh
[Jun 6, 2011 6:39:00 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
robertmiles
Senior Cruncher
US
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Post Count: 445
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

Mysteron347,

Looks like Australia is rather different in what they offer for finding jobs than here in the US.

Apparantly, some oil-drilling companies use rather high-end parallel computing for processing some of the echo-sounding data to decide where to aim their drilling, and also to keep track of where their drilling is aimed when they have used direction-changing more than once. Why they often want it done on-site is less clear, but I suspect that many of those sites do not have adequate internet connections to do it off-site. I'd expect on-land drilling sites to set up buildings near the oil rig, to keep their computers away from the oil.

Looks like continuing education (possibly online) may be more appropriate for you than getting another degree. I've found little on US employers still interested in whether applicants can program in C; they tend to be more interested in whether they can program in the more recent computer languages, such as C++. I'd expect the oil-drilling companies to be especially interested in whether you can program in CUDA or OpenCL.

If you've learned any more recent computer languages at work, you may want to look for online universities that offer testing of your knowledge of various subjects, with a certificate to be awarded if you pass the test, probably much cheaper than a course on that subject.

A few items that look likely to be of interest to you:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_books.html

http://research.nvidia.com/content/cuda-courses-map

http://developer.amd.com/SDKS/Pages/default.aspx

http://developer.nvidia.com//

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_consultants.html

http://www.fixstars.com/en/company/books/opencl/


A site mentioned as showing what programming you can do; it also has a jobs listing section, although one with rather few jobs in Australia yet.

https://github.com/
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by robertmiles at Jun 7, 2011 5:39:50 AM]
[Jun 7, 2011 5:35:47 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
zarck
Cruncher
Joined: Aug 2, 2009
Post Count: 33
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

http://developer.nvidia.com/category/zone/cuda-zone

http://developer.amd.com/zones/OpenCLZone/universities/Pages/default.aspx

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/opencl-sdk/

@+
*_*

)

[edit] Attach to projects with GPU applications

Projects with NVIDIA applications:
AQUA@home (CUDA offline)
Collatz Conjecture (Windows and Mac OS X on Intel)
DistrRTgen (Windows, Linux 64bit)
DNETC@Home (Windows, Linux 32bit, Linux 64bit )
Einstein (Linux, Windows and Mac OS X on Intel)
GPUgrid.net (Linux 64bit and Windows)
Lattice (Coming soon)
Milkyway@home (Double precision GPU required, so compute capability 1.3 or higher, meaning a GForce GTX 260 or better) (Linux 64bit and Windows)
Moo! (Driver 256.00 or better, Compute Capability 1.0 or higher, Minimum device memory 64MB - http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=16)
PrimeGrid (Proth Prime Search (Sieve), Linux 32bit, Linux 64bit Windows and Mac OS X on Intel; Cullen/Woodall Prime Search (Sieve), Linux 32bit, Linux 64bit, Windows and Mac OS X on Intel)
SETI@home (Windows only)
SETI@home Beta (Windows only)

Projects with ATI applications:
Collatz Conjecture (Windows, Windows 64bit, Linux 64bit)
DNETC@Home (Windows and Linux 32bit)
Milkyway@home (Double precision GPU required, so a Radeon HD 38xx, 48xx, 47xx, 58xx, 69xx, FirePro V87xx, FireStream 92xx) (Windows only)
Moo! (Driver v10.4 or later, ATI Runtime (not older AMD), Minimum device memory 250MB - http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=16)
PrimeGrid (Proth Prime Search (Sieve), Linux 32bit, Linux 64bit and Windows)
SETI@home Beta (Windows only)

You're done! Soon you'll be racking up big credit numbers. Of course, you can attach to other projects too; BOINC will keep both your CPU and GPU busy.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by zarck at Jun 13, 2011 8:34:11 PM]
[Jun 13, 2011 4:01:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
robertmiles
Senior Cruncher
US
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Post Count: 445
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

One more BOINC project planning GPU applications soon:

Poem@Home

Already has a CPU application written in OpenCL, but appears to be waiting for the 6.14.* series of BOINC versions that will supply more support for GPU applications written in OpenCL.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by robertmiles at Jun 14, 2011 2:13:46 AM]
[Jun 14, 2011 2:12:46 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
Master Cruncher
http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif
Joined: Mar 22, 2007
Post Count: 2324
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Seti is 10 times faster with Cuda, why not World community Grid ?

Poem have been planning a GPU project for a loooong time...
Good luck to them but it always seems to be several months away.

Going by what Sumit Gupta says we might be using CUDA on CPU's before Poem get a GPU project going ;P
[Jun 25, 2011 12:02:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 73   Pages: 8   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread