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Sekerob
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

A client only gets these ''repair'' /short deadlined tasks when:

1. Returning results on a continuous basis within 48 hours
2. Returns valid results on a continuous basis, like 99.8% of the time.

The deadlines of "repair" jobs are 40% of the original deadline, so a 10 day standard task that fails is resend with a 4 day deadline.

Given what I'm reading there is no bug v.v. this matter (ignore that guess). Let the client process them in FIFO and they'll be back in time... within 48 hours as your clients have been doing... there IS no problem. WCG identified your clients as highly reliable and thus picked these rush jobs up in the cycle so as to let them match up quicker with any waiting quorum wingman and batch completion.

cheers and thank you for crunching at WCG.

edit: How many days of work are you caching, for if you cache 3 days or more you should not be getting these short deadline tasks. If you don't want them, set the "connect every xxx days" to for instance 3 days. Work will still be fetched and reported if an internet connection is detected.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Oct 20, 2010 6:45:30 PM]
[Oct 20, 2010 6:29:18 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jsobry@gmail.com
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Again, I do not understand what you are trying to clarify. Perhaps I am dense or stupid. Currently I have 6 tasks due on October 24. I have 6 tasks due on October 27, 1 task due on October 29 and 16 tasks due on October 30.
Currently ! task is running with a deadline of October 24, one task is running with a deadline of October 27, the only task with a deadline of October 29 is running and 4 tasks with a deadline of October 30 are running and one that is ready to report completion.
I have been watching this for quite some time and every time a task completes a new task is picked to start with a deadline of October 30. I wonder when the tasks with a deadline of October 24, 27 will be picked.
On three different occasions I have seen a task not meeting the deadline because tasks with a later completion target date were running before the tasks with an earlier deadline. Then, when the task is almost complete you get a message saying that this task will not make it and you may as well abort it. I think that is a waste of resources. Perhaps WCG thinks there is no problem in wasting resources but I take exception to that.
[Oct 20, 2010 7:15:18 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jsobry@gmail.com
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Just to clarify: another task with a deadline of October 30 just finished and a new task with a deadline of October 30 was started ignoring the ten tasks due by October 24 and 27. The question is when will the tasks due by October 24 and 27 be given a chance to run?
[Oct 20, 2010 7:36:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RT
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Just to clarify: another task with a deadline of October 30 just finished and a new task with a deadline of October 30 was started ignoring the ten tasks due by October 24 and 27. The question is when will the tasks due by October 24 and 27 be given a chance to run?


I do not understand why that is happening. I am sure however, that the WCG is not intentionally trying to waste resources. I suspect that it has something to do with the stuff Sekerob is talking about; that is that you are getting repair jobs with the software expecting to be able to complete the other jobs in your queue before their due date. It could be this is a perturbation of the deadlines being changed. Hopefully you will not have any others time out.

Again, I have been here since the start in 2004 and I have never seen WCG intentionally waste the contributor’s resources (unlike some other projects).
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[Oct 20, 2010 7:56:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jsobry@gmail.com
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Yet again: the only task with a completion target of October 27 ended and a new task with a completion target of October 30 was started ignoring the 10 tasks due by October 24 and 27, five each.
Again I ask the question when will the tasks due by October 24 and 27 be given a chance to run ?
There may not be a problem but I sure have the feeling that there IS.
[Oct 20, 2010 7:56:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jsobry@gmail.com
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Thank you for your reply RT. I nevertheless think that there is some kind of problem in the algorithms that decide what to run next. My intention here is not to be negative but to get the very best out of our resources. I think most if not all people participating in this fantastic project would agree with that.
So instead of saying there IS no problem perhaps we should say there IS ALWAYS a problem. We can always do better.
I abandoned climate.net or whatever they are called for exactly that reason: do not presume that I donate my resources so you can waste them.
[Oct 20, 2010 8:10:46 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Unless tasks are run in high priority (seen in the Tasks view, status column of the client), the order of operation is First In First Out (FIFO), meaning the deadline is NOT considered a priority unless the client calculates that by the time it gets to these tasks they wont finish before their deadline.

IF you've sorted the "Report Deadline" column on deadline it's hard to see in what order tasks arrived so they seem to process out of order. Unless the receipt timestamp is absolute identical, you can sort the My Grid > Result Status page in the *send* order (link presorted for your convinience). Compare that to the order of processing in the client and it will likely get clearer.

Today is the 20th, so if you are receiving *repair* jobs today, they're due on the 24th (all but HCC) or 23th (HCC). If they're not repair jobs they have a due date of the 30th. The tasks with the 29th you must have received yesterday. The tasks due on the 27th I thus suspect them to be Help Conquer Cancer tasks. The exception is currently Help Conquer Cancer. They have a standard deadline of 7 days and if they are repair jobs they get 2.8 days to return. WCG sends these in random order, but when it has a repair job in the feeder, it will send them ahead of other tasks that have standard deadline. That's all it does.

Given the fact that your client is receiving repair jobs, as I outlined in my last post, your client must have been returning work on a frequent basis within 48 hours. If the client misses to do that frequently it wont get them.

If tasks are missing deadline than at any time you visit the Result Status page there would be tasks that are listed with No Reply or Too Late. Have any been missing their deadline? If not, let it crunch and zero time of your donated cycles are wasted. If your machine is an 8 threaded I7, it easily handles 30-50 tasks a day depending on what science it's processing.

So let us ascertain. If you go to the advanced menu of BOINC Manager, then Preferences, Then Network tab. What are the "Connect about every..." and "Additional work buffer ..." values? If the sum of these 2 is less than 2.00 days you're all fine and all your tasks will complete long ahead of deadline.

-- SekeRob
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[Oct 20, 2010 8:49:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RT
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

Thank you for your reply RT. I nevertheless think that there is some kind of problem in the algorithms that decide what to run next. My intention here is not to be negative but to get the very best out of our resources. I think most if not all people participating in this fantastic project would agree with that.
So instead of saying there IS no problem perhaps we should say there IS ALWAYS a problem. We can always do better.
I abandoned climate.net or whatever they are called for exactly that reason: do not presume that I donate my resources so you can waste them.


I would bet almost anything that Sekerob is correct above.

Oh and for the record, I have no association with WCG; I am a contributor just like you.

Sekerob is a Community Advisor that works strictly as a volunteer without reward of any kind. (works very hard I might add)

Have a great day smile
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[Oct 21, 2010 2:34:15 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jsobry@gmail.com
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

I know that Sekerob works very hard and I certainly appreciate the efforts put in by you guys. Nevertheless I think that every problem should be addressed whenever possible. Keep in mind that may not always be possible.
In any event I think I now understand what my problem is. That is to say my problem vis a vis what WCG took as the approach to expedite work. And again I understand that this is a valiant attempt at getting the most out of our resources.
So, normally my PCs and Macs don't have much to do but once in a while because of the nature of the work I do I need them and I need them on full blast. Also once in a blue moon I leave for 2 or 3 days and I shut my PCs off because I do not want to run them unattended while I am away.
This throws off the assumption that my systems are a very dependable resource.
In retrospect, and while I can not be sure right now, I think that each of the three cases I mentioned earlier was associated with me leaving and/or running a very large load.
When I know beforehand that this will happen I turn on the flag "NO NEW TASKS" and then the systems finish their work and that is it.
But when these events are unexpected I do not get the chance to do that.
I will keep an eye out and see if this is indeed the case. I can make adjustments to avoid the problem. I do not think that WCG can do anything about that.
[Oct 22, 2010 9:04:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RT
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Re: Boinc not crunching wu's with an earlier return date

I just wish everyone would be as responsbile as you are. Kind Regards. smile
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[Oct 23, 2010 11:35:51 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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