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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: BOINC Agent Support
Thread: Boinc Version Supported |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 21
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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So, if I read you correctly, Ingleside, you are stacking assumptions above assumptions** but you have no precise stats on BOINC versions used inside WCG. Don't hesitate to come back when you have some, and meanwhile do click on your wingmen's Result Logs from time to time: that will give you a flavor (not a statistical view, I agree) of which oldies are still crunching around. I doubt WCG is going to start showing any version-info anytime soon, so if none of the WCG-techs posts the info in this thread... ** Your weakest assumption being, as always, that the profile of credit hunters on many of the other sites is the same as the profile of WCG members only interested with having their agent smoothly running in the background for trying to help useful causes. Much different motivations and interests. Well, my assumtions about the "large" BOINC-projects population of active users are, roughly 75% single-computer-users, over 80% only runs a single project, and is only interested in this project regardless of credit compared to other projects. Most multi-project-users is only attached to other projects to have one or more "backup"-projects in case of outages, or to use GPU in cases their main project doesn't support the GPU they've got. So, does this fit the profile of WCG-users? My assumtion is yes...   "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." |
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RT
Master Cruncher USA - Texas - DFW Joined: Dec 22, 2004 Post Count: 2636 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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... Seriously, think this is not something that can be expected by the small WCG crew to be maintained as to start documenting which versions have what problems with what Hardware/OS/User Apps, the variations of host setups is endless. If at all, since this is multi-grid impacting, works for WCG but not for Einsteen, such initiative belongs at Berkeley. ... It seems to me that WCG cannot be held responsible for making sure that the latest version of BOINC works here at WCG for all environments/projects and that it achieves some compatibility with all the other Distributed Computing projects. Or for that matter even tests all these versions in all those environments with all the projects (thousands of combinations). It seems to me that they have taken the only reasonable alternative. And that this discussion, while entertaining, leads only back to the above conclusion by Sekerob. Or did I miss something? |
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KerSamson
Master Cruncher Switzerland Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Post Count: 1684 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Hi,
----------------------------------------I agree with RT's statement. Regarding the limited available human resources, the approach taken by the WCG crew is surely the most appropriate. Again, I do like to repeat my previous statement, the first step to operational efficiency is to limit changes and in particular to avoid unnecessary changes as long as a system respectively a configuration runs reliably and meets the requirements. Indeed boinc does experience yearly a lot of releases for various reasons and with various level of improvements or changes. WCG would lose many contributors if "unclean" boinc versions would disturb the use of systems (often servers) made available by members for WCG projects. I can understand the impatience of some members waiting for GPU support (not only for non-WCG projects but for WCG-projects too), I can also understand the frustration of some members being part of teams which are not focused in particular on WCG and having the feeling that their WCG participation is not "honored" with sufficient credit (in comparison to other non WCG projects). Nevertheless, I think that the particularity of WCG is to be focused on long term projects which could bring some improvement for the Humanity. The particularity of WCG is also to make projects possible which would never become reality without WCG support. These both major particularities make the humanistic value of WCG. Such value cannot be quantified only based on granted credits. I am happy and honored being able to support WCG with some computers. I thank the WCG crew and the community advisors for the reliable and accurate support they provide to WCG members. I enjoy to be here. Have a nice Sunday, Yves |
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sk..
Master Cruncher http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Post Count: 2324 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Berkeley are now working on 6.11.6. It allows for server upgrades but only seti are presently using these upgrades; so an empty Notices Tab replaces the Messages Tab :(
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Berkeley are now working on 6.11.6. It allows for server upgrades but only seti are presently using these upgrades; so an empty Notices Tab replaces the Messages Tab :( Well, BOINC alpha has also up-to-date server-versions.  The Notices is definitely a work-in-progress, both on client-side and server-side. As for the Messages-tab, 100% of this is included in the Message-log, accessed from the "advanced" menu-choise. Now, if your only purpose to look on the messages is a quick look to see if anything immediately pops-up, not having it as a separate tab is a disadvantage. If you on the other hand wants to look more closely on things, like a particular task or upload-problem or something, having the messages as a separate window is a nice advantage, since instead of constantly jumping back and forth between message-tab and the other tab you're interested at (and trying to find the corresponding task or whatever for every tab-switch), you can view both the message-log in one window and the other tab in another window at the same time. "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The new "Event Log" is not line wrap formatted properly and is also not color coded to highlight important issues. They also moved the "Computing Preferences" and I can't say why ... moving things around just for the sake of change is only making busy work for devs and is confusing to users.
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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The new "Event Log" is not line wrap formatted properly and is also not color coded to highlight important issues. Maybe I'm mis-remembering something here, but has the message-tab had line-wrapping? In any case, it would have been a nice addition. As for colour-coded, any important issues should also show-up in the Notices-tab, and preferably better explanation for more non-technical users so they can easier fix anything that needs fixing... Still having colour-coded event log, and preferably being extended to user-configurable colour-coding, would be an advantage. But, atleast with the current colour-usage, it's easy to drown in red, without any real problem at all. Example: 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: No work can be sent for the applications you have selected 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: No work is available for Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together - Phase 2 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: No work is available for Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together - Phase 2 (Type A) 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 is not available for your type of computer. 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: You have selected to receive work from other applications if no work is available for the applications you selected 30.08.2010 17:54:32|World Community Grid|Message from server: Sending work from other applications Now, keeping CEP2 red could possibly be an idea, since atleast for now you'll never get any CEP2-work. But, the "nose-bleed"-version due to DDDT2 not being available at this instance, especially since have choosen to download other work, doesn't make much sence, since there's really nothing wrong, and user doesn't need to change anything but can just continue crunching WCG as before. Also, any real problems will very easily drown in all the unneccessary red. They also moved the "Computing Preferences" and I can't say why ... moving things around just for the sake of change is only making busy work for devs and is confusing to users. Yes, it's confusing, atleast at first... There's hopefully a good reason behind the change, but I don't know the reason... "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." [Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Aug 30, 2010 4:28:38 PM] |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Whenever NO selected sciences are available even when the "If..." condition kicks in, ALL selected projects that have an activated feeder are listed and is a notifier worth message too as it tells the volunteer why none are being send and which sciences. Multi-device owners would not out of hand remember which profile goes with what device so this is positive feedback, albeit red!
----------------------------------------Not going to opine here on 6.11... Alpha/Beta are NOT the object of the OP... a listing of production fit clients with their relevant pitfalls and fallback features... yes saw that 5.4.11 is still around at WCG, so it must be doing the job. --//--
WCG
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Like nearly every cruncher with a few machines I suppose does, I download new versions..... This should have been the right way to say. I went a little fast on that and yes I have no statistical background except I generalized a little too quickly from a few cases including myself. According to my real time process and automation experience, I do not change a running system . You are right Yves professionally speaking. It makes me remember of PDP11 units used to control automatic processes in industry. I saw some production lines in food industry were the lines were still active but amortized years ago, and nobody had a clue about what was in the PDP11. The manager told me, the moment it dies or does not restart we throw everything, PDP11 and lines in the bin, but until that moment it is just profit. But on WCG the thing is more related to curiosity and new Hardware-OS pair. As I use the latest W7 in 64 bit and Intel CPU's I did try many recent versions on different machines to get let's say the maximum result. Is the hassle worth it. For sure in economical terms not, but in personal terms every small increase in performance or reduction of problems even tiniest is worth. In french we say: "quant on aime on ne compte pas"  [Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Aug 30, 2010 5:05:27 PM] |
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KerSamson
Master Cruncher Switzerland Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Post Count: 1684 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi Hypernova,
----------------------------------------currently I don't have much time available for experimentation ... unfortunately  My main objective is to offer reliable systems to the projects. I will have anyway to start moving in a close future to "something new" (hardware, OS, and probably boinc as well). The remark regarding automation was not focused on "missing system and process documentation". Much more it is a reasonable behavior regarding security and safety in the chemical industry, because, often, process improvement could become an "improvement for the worst" (so called in German "Veschlimmbesserung"). My remark objective was/is not to discourage experimentation, because we need beta (and alpha) testers for elaborating new solutions and more efficient solutions. Finally, I agree with you "quand on aime, on ne compte pas ..." especially the kwh Cheers, Yves |
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