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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
I was surprised at the ranking you gave the four examples I pulled from Properties. I thought the higher the negatives, the greater the debt, the greater the need for work. But, hey, that's why you are you and I am me, and, I am better for having had your good counsel. >>RSM Obviously you're not an [American] banker. The more debt, the less chance you have with my bank to get more added to the loan. ![]()
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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Richard Mitnick
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Post Count: 583 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi Sek-
----------------------------------------Still trying to get this right. So, right now based upon Ingleside's advice, on the I7 machine, I have Connect about at zero, and Additional work buffer at 0.10. So, based upon what he gave me to do the calculation, this gives me a figure of 69120. So if I am understanding this, in Project|Properties any project with CPU work fetch priority higher than -69120, let's say -59120 should get work. So, if I see that I do not have any projects with a CPU work fetch priority higher than -69120, I need to raise the connection to a higher number to get a higher multiplicand, e.g. .5 which would get me 345600, and thus the -345600 would stand me better to get more work. Do, I have that right? Because when I retired for the night last night, I had a pretty good looking list of work. This morning I was down to less than the 8 running WU's. So, I need to make a change somewhere, and I want to make it correctly. Again, thanks so much. BTW, any jokes about American bankers will be greeted warmly, they are an anathema. >>RSM |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
mitrichr,
----------------------------------------Really, with 0.1 buffer and 8 cores you'll rarely have more than 8-12 jobs to start in cache (additional buffer). As I noted, just let it run for a wee while. 0.1 cache is 2.4 hours - per core-. Next set it to for instance 0.25 days (6 hours and the hard coded default) and let it run. Don't get overzealous... let the beast grow slowly. With the number of projects you have attached there's so little chance you not having access to work from somewhere that with a 12 hour cache (0.5 days) and a solid internet connection, there's no need to go higher. Presently, in your case, 0.1 cache and 8 jobs running concurrent that WILL at times result in 8 jobs running and nothing cached, UNTIL the work in progress has "time to complete" WHICH IS INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATION has a mean run time left of less than 0.1 days. If not already noted, the -86400 seconds debt, per project, equal one day per project is a limit at which the LTD should stop you from fetching work from that project, so other projects get a chance. The funny is, that by allowing other projects to crunch, that debt is paid off. Anyway, 6.10.18 is designed to always keep all cores busy. That has to be taken with a small grain of salt. I observed on my duo yesterday that work was fetched only when a job actually had completed, so 1 core idled for 1 minute. That is with a setting of 0.01 day cache. I suspect the job had a sudden fast finish causing this. But work was fetched quickly, the call made within the second from job completion. Hope I've not confused you. PS: With certain projects you used to be able to clock up millions of debt. CPDN was/is a good one doing that. As yet, under 6.10.18 I've not seen LTD go bigger than -86400, but I'm right now going to force a hand to see if it will go higher. Got way to much for 1 project in suspend and already it's -59k. Releasing it should jump it in the processing queue given that the very small project weight does not justify the cached work volume.
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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Richard Mitnick
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Post Count: 583 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Seeing that I was getting no work, I increased the Additional work buffer from 0.10 = 69120, resulting in -69120 to
----------------------------------------0.50 = 345600 resulting in -345600. I immediately got more work. But, I am flying blind. In Properties, do I look at CPU Scheduling priority or CPU work fetch priority? Or, do I add them together? I have tried to find the dynamics for this in various FAQ or BOINC Wiki descriptions and have not found anything to tell me. Also, I saw some discussion of setting everything to zero, but no place did I see how or when to do that. Note that I have detached from any project currently dormant or out of work, like LHC@home, my favorite. All of you guys are being great help and I appreciate it very much. You can see in my signature that in spite of all of this, my numbers are moving up nicely. I want to see that continue. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
PS; 6.10.18 benchmarks jobs per project so BOINC knows better what to expect when work is being called from a project. Think that is even at a per-science level, not sure though. What I have observed is that it is not calling large swats of work, rather just a one-two, a few jobs at a time [which with WCG can be anything] and then will call more after assessing the sizes received. The test to observe this is incrementing the cache by a little. That is an advise. Just don't jump from 0.1 to 2.0 or whatever. That will risk you of getting too much if BOINC gets the wrong estimated run times fed. AND, anytime a project is contacted, that first project contacted will try to fill that cache, because projects don't care how much they dump on a client. The more they force into your cache the more you'll be working for them, until the debt blocks them from more work fetching.
----------------------------------------edit: the should have read they
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 2 times, last edit by Sekerob at Nov 22, 2009 3:42:50 PM] |
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Richard Mitnick
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Post Count: 583 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Sek - I just saw this response. So, having jumped ahead of you to the 0.50, if that is not wise, just let me know and I will back away to the 0.10.
----------------------------------------I would still like to know how to treat the numbers I see in Properties. I do want to understand all of this. >>RSM |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
mitrichr,
----------------------------------------Did you read what I wrote to explain why no work might have been coming? 0.5 days on a I7 with hyperthreading is equal 345600 real computing seconds, but since hyperthreads really only gets 15-20% of CPU gap time, it's really worth about 500,000 seconds wallclock. BOINC in time will increment the DCF because of this and turn the knob down again... and seeing you knobbing the cache up again to counter, the problem is being recreated again. PLEASE let it run and learn.
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Nov 22, 2009 3:50:29 PM] |
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Richard Mitnick
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Feb 28, 2007 Post Count: 583 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hey-
----------------------------------------Gotcha. I am going to go nowhere near the machine. I promise. I see what you mean. In non-technical terms, let the dust settle, don't keep stirring it up. BTW, you guys will be relieved to know that I plan to be away for about a week starting Tuesday morning, so I will not be haranguing you, you will have some peace and quite from this digiteria. >>RSM |
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Seeing that I was getting no work, I increased the Additional work buffer from 0.10 = 69120, resulting in -69120 to 0.50 = 345600 resulting in -345600. I immediately got more work. But, I am flying blind. In Properties, do I look at CPU Scheduling priority or CPU work fetch priority? Or, do I add them together? CPU work fetch priority is for work-requests. I have tried to find the dynamics for this in various FAQ or BOINC Wiki descriptions and have not found anything to tell me. Hmm, probably not, since documentation is always lagging-behind... Also, the work-request & cpu-scheduler has had various re-writes through the history of BOINC, so even if you finds a FAQ, it's possible it's outdated info, and the recommendation will actually be opposite what's true for v6.10.xx-clients. Also, I saw some discussion of setting everything to zero, but no place did I see how or when to do that. Needing to zero is mainly a problem if you're running multiple projects and upgrading from v6.4.x and earlier clients, to v6.6.xx and later clients. Since you're starting "clean", it's no reason to zero anything. ![]() "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." |
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JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor Normandy - France Joined: Jan 26, 2007 Post Count: 3716 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Gotcha. I am going to go nowhere near the machine. I promise. You may watch its tasks list as much as you want as long as you don't change any scheduling setting. In fact watching it this way can teach much on how it works. And I don't want to speak for Sekerob but personally I have no problem with members wanting to understand how their client is working. We are here to share our knowledge and to learn from others', so it's OK with you. Just curious, don't change your plans after reading this question: will you leave your machine crunching or not while you are absent? Just to know which other BOINC internals we will have to introduce when you are back. Have a good leave. Jean. |
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