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Re: The Big, Bad for Business, Non-Budgeting, Budget

So basically you can push it into the ground where it can leak out upon geological activity harming people/animals, put it into the oceans where it will lower the pH harming that environment, mineral carbonation which is the most expensive and requires a lot more digging in the earth for minerals to use, or industrial use which doesn't seem to use nearly enough up to make a difference.

The report included beverages as an industrial use of CO2 which I thought was a bit sad, since once you open the container the CO2 is re-released into the atmosphere without any form of control.

Really great/informative report though.

Thanks,
Faldor
[May 6, 2009 3:22:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: The Big, Bad for Business, Non-Budgeting, Budget

faldor, we're talking about carbon, not toxic waste.

This is stuff that you can safely eat.

Burying it is really the only option. It may be difficult to put it back into quite such inaccessible places as the coal and oil reserves it came from originally, but nevertheless, leaks are not a big concern. You read the report, so you know that all the possibilities have been considered.

Carbonated beverages are mentioned once, in the section entitled "Present industrial uses of carbon dioxide". The report even concludes: "The scale of the use of captured CO2 in industrial processes is too small, the storage times too short and the energy balance too unfavourable for industrial uses of CO2 to become significant as a means of mitigating climate change."

I don't understand how you can read this report and come to conclusions so diametrically opposed to what it recommends.
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devilish Re: The Big, Bad for Business, Non-Budgeting, Budget

faldor, we're talking about carbon, not toxic waste.

This is stuff that you can safely eat.
quote]

I dont mean to burst your bubble, but CO2 is a gas!
You dont eat it.

As for Carbon not being toxic - when it is mixed with minerals, it is not carbon anymore. There can be a huge variety of different reactions at different rates and the many different chemical products, each with different equilibriums, continuously change over time. Some reactions can take nanoseconds, and some will take millions of years. Each one produces another product that changes the equilibrium. So there will always be a huge degree of guesswork involved. This makes CCS a dangerous proposition.
[May 6, 2009 6:17:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: The Big, Bad for Business, Non-Budgeting, Budget

Carbon isn't normally a gas. But yes, the report talks more about CO2 than carbon.

And I'm pretty sure carbon remains carbon no matter what compound it is in :-D

Given that carbon is a hugely abundant element, and central to the natural carbon cycle, I'm really not worried about it leaking. CO2 leakage is slightly more problematic, which is why I prefer the mineral carbonisation approach.

I object to CCS on different grounds altogether. It's a pointless waste of money, when we need a serious commitment to reducing emissions simply by not digging up the coal in the first place.

Carbon storage comes into play when we consider how to "put the genie back in the bottle" and clean up the mess we already have.
[May 6, 2009 6:31:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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