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GIBA
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cool EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science ?

Probable it was discussed here in some forum but I can't found.

So, I would like to share with you a very interesting proposal and project using BOINC capabilities improved by many other ideas...

The first approach main idea is change the BOINC source code from C to Java to became it feasible to be ported to be used under ANDROID Operating System (Google) and in this way available to crunch BOINC in any cell phone with ANDROID or Java equivalent OS (some devices today, but increasing the number very quickly each day, reaching in few months the same power of computing that BOINC in 2003 at its start times... and growth each day more...).

The second main approach idea is use a lot of cloud computing scenarios, merging many grids with many supercomputers grids, and provide possibilities to use virtualization for any user (under VMWARE or other similar developed tool) to increase power of computing. And so on...

Recent evaluation of this project expect to have incredible Exaflop power of computing capabilities in one or two years... WOW !!!

( An Exaflop/s is 1000 Petaflop/s, that is 1.000.000 Tflop/s or 1.000.000.000 Gflop/s or 1.000.000.000.000 Mflop/s or 1.000.000.000.000.000 Kflop/s or 1.000.000.000.000.000.000 Flop/s. And just to remember that a Flop is a floating point operation such as adding or multiplying two numbers)

It is feasible and probably will became a real leapfrog in Grid Computing as we know today. Just check it ! good luck

http://www.edges-grid.eu/

http://www.edges-grid.eu:8080/c/document_libr...97&name=DLFE-1019.pdf

http://www.eu-egee.org/

http://web.eu-egi.eu/fileadmin/public/EGI_DS_D5_4_V300b.pdf

http://www.eclipse.org/geclipse/

coffee
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Cheers ! GIB@ peace coffee
Join BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID team and be very happy !
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=DF99KT5DN1

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by GIBA at Jan 29, 2009 4:43:42 PM]
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

Unless you leave your phone plugged in all the time, I think you would be plagued with a dead battery in quite short order. Also with the processor in your phone running full or even half bore, I think you might experience heat problems with the phone. I do not think phones are designed to have the processors running all the time. Please correct me if I am way off base.

Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
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Nick-MMX
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

I dont believe that current generation cell or smart phones can overheat. ive made a benchmark program for java enabled phones and I ran it on several different devices. None of them became hot in any way. I couldnt actually notice any difference. The main ways a cell/smart phone becomes discharged is by using its wireless transmitter. I wouldnt think the CPU's would use that much power. Even so you could make the program work but im sure it would need LOTS of optimization because java isnt a very clean programming language.


Heres my app:
http://www.getjar.com/products/17087/DisplayBench
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Former Member
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

Sgt.Joe, you are absolutely correct. Any phone powerful enough to be useful (and even the most powerful are very, very slow compared to desktop computers) would pretty much melt if used at full power for extended periods (even just a few minutes).

They wouldn't literally melt - phones have thermal cutoffs and I imagine the latest can underclock and throttle as required.

Nick-MMX, how long does your benchmark run for, and what results does it report? Can you give us some examples?

How have you validated your results? An aggressive optimiser can cause benchmarks to produce completely inaccurate results.
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Nick-MMX
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

at first I decided to make the benchmark run for 1 minute but after a lot of testing I realized that only 3 seconds per test section was required to give an accurate representation of the CPU's power. 5 minutes gave the same result as a 3 second test.

The benchmark works on how many loops it can do in its allotted time divided by a preset divisor to normalize the results. The CPU task's are as follows:
CPU score: how many program loops it can run in 1 second divided by 1000 to normalize the score.

Memory score: Copy 64kb of data to the main memory. These results are given as a score and as Read KB/s and Write KB/s. The score is the number of times it is copied in 3.7823 seconds multiplied by 31.4

I found that on a 225MHz phone it could only write data at 104 KB/s and read at 109 KB/s

Integer Score is the integer values of the number 832 square rooted 6 times, the sine of the number 832 6 times and the tangent of the number 832 6 times. This is then looped and the number of loops is divided by 10.

Float score: the same as integer score but all of the values having double precision.

Its pretty hack job as you can see but it gives the most reliable result that I could find.

During my writing of this program I found that cell/smart phones have services and other programs running in the background. I found this odd so I tested it on the oldest java enabled phone I could find a Motorola L6. It also has these programs running in the background. They cause the benchmark scores to fluctuate in magnitude.

More over java isnt a very clean and I could only seem to code a program to get less than a megaflop out of a 225MHz Phone. This was not my promary goal so I didnt go very far into this line of work. we would need LOTS of phones to match the power of a single desktop computer. I believe this has to do with the amount of transistors on each CPU on the phone. I dont think that there would be very many so doing grid computing on Cell/Smart phones is a fair bit off. Sorry guys :(
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Nick-MMX at Jan 28, 2009 1:55:13 PM]
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

I had hoped you were using the standard dhrystone and whetstone benchmarks, so we could at least pretend to have comparable values. I am unsure why you think your "integer" benchmark is representative of integer performance. What operations do they break down into?
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Nick-MMX
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

Its not a very nice way of measuring performance. I dont really like java but im coding a little program for you right now that does this:

while(time less than 10 seconds)
{
5x5
number of loops
}

then:
Number of loops divided by 10

this will hopefully give you something to work with so you can find out how many flops are happening. im trying to make it as basic as possible.
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Nick-MMX
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

http://uploadfile.org/download.php?id=Q36WaoPxjATj6IYqPxem
Specs: 64MB Internal SDRAM, 225MHz Processor
My phone got 178355 FLOPS
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nick-MMX at Jan 28, 2009 4:04:40 PM]
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Nick-MMX
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

question: what are the algorithms for standard dhrystone and whetstone calculations?
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GIBA
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Re: EDGeS - enabling Desktop Grids for e-Science

Sgt.Joe, you are absolutely correct. Any phone powerful enough to be useful (and even the most powerful are very, very slow compared to desktop computers) would pretty much melt if used at full power for extended periods (even just a few minutes).

They wouldn't literally melt - phones have thermal cutoffs and I imagine the latest can underclock and throttle as required.

Nick-MMX, how long does your benchmark run for, and what results does it report? Can you give us some examples?

How have you validated your results? An aggressive optimiser can cause benchmarks to produce completely inaccurate results.


Didactylos,
you can be right if we assume that the devices will crunch all time in the same way that desktops or laptops, but another part of this history is that the idea behind EDGES evolved.

It will work with small WU's, breaking much more the work units in smaller parts than we know today, and will be designed to use less power of computation per device than normal computers but in more time and under other kind of algorithms than any computer used right now in any grid computing project... it is a breakthrough initiative !

Just think that different processors can be ported with Java based BOINC or other specific EDGES plataform, using many rules from BOINC but basically will not have the same kind of approach.

Many cell phones (specially smart phones) today have more processing capabilitily than some computer processors in 2003 when BOINC started. Nick-MMX just put some evaluations posted to probe it...

In a real cloud computing network world, a lot of virtualization capabilities could be used to produce a lot of work from many devices (a little bit from each one than just one computer as we know today, and many of then could work if we sum, as one in virtualization mode using grid computing techniques and cloud computing capabilities and features. For example, just easy parts of computation could be processed by cell phones, and hard parts of computation will be sent to other more quickly and heavy power computer devices like desktops or supercomputers...).

So, in this way, we will not need the same processing capability that we found in desktops or laptops to process the same quantity of Flops if we think in performing grid under cell phones, but we will need a lot of more small devices (like cell or smart phones provide us today) to process the same quantity of Flops, and for sure we will need special grid software with a kind of virtualization and paralelism running over a less weigth platform to reach similar or superior results, and I believe that it will be the main barrier once there are a lot of devices and processors to be ported over this platform... an incredible challenge today !

It is another new approach than any grid project or WCG or any other BOINC based project use until today. And it will be a incredible leapfrog in grid technologies if became feasible. coffee
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Cheers ! GIB@ peace coffee
Join BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID team and be very happy !
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=DF99KT5DN1

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by GIBA at Jan 28, 2009 5:48:26 PM]
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