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JmBoullier
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Normandy - France
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Re: this is a really long work unit

So the next question is how does "Pending Validation" and Valid Relate?

Does "Pending Validation" imply "VALID"?

Reread my post: "Pending Validation" has not gone through the validator yet, so it is not part of the game for condition #2.

And to save you one question I would bet that "inconclusive" are ignored too, but this has to be confirmed by knreed.

Cheers. Jean.
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[Aug 22, 2008 12:57:03 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
petehardy
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Re: this is a really long work unit

Hey Barney,

I'm lookin' forward to seeing how your machine is put together, and I'd just like to say this. If you leave all the BOINC/WCG defaults as/is you'll see that it works pretty well. If I were you I'd build a couple more of those quads and really kick butt!!!

Pete
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Sekerob
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Re: this is a really long work unit

To clarify Pending Validation in any Quorum distribution meaning: The result was by all known work unit controls completed without any anomalous conditions occurring and thus not up front "Invalid" or "Error" or "Inconclusive". Where a result in the case of Zero Redundancy is dubious or in Quorum 2-10-14 is not within tight quality control parameters or not bit for bit identical (method depends on project), the task(s) are marked "Inconclusive" and additional copies are send out for verification and validation.

"Invalid" means that the unit was completed locally within standards, but on further checks by the validators found to be incorrect. 50% credit is given for work done, based on the valid units in a quorum.

Plz see FAQs for further explanations, particular the Result Status page XYZ FAQs.
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Re: this is a really long work unit

Sekerob, Didactylos, Knreed, Jean,

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm not trying at all to pick apart WCG, not in the slightest.

I am of course really trying to understand how things run.

The credits are of little interest to me personally. I mean, they aren't like S&H Green Stamps (now that should date me a tad crying ) or otherwise redeemable for prizes; fuel or anything else for that mater.

A more thorough understanding of how the entire process works, lends to questions about where efficiencies (I guess this depends on perspective) can be made with little to no effort (low hanging fruit if you will).

From purely an externals view, it appears the simple argument settings I'm using does appear to help in that regard because multiple copies of the same WU COULD be returned faster. As I understand things, it appears WCG has a mechanism to mark a WU that's been dispatched for analysis and somehow update it's status on a client machine to bring it in front of other WU's on a clients queue.

Certainly, the goal is not to be difficult, abrasive, demeaning or attempting to pick any fights. Not in the slightest. Just a more in depth understanding of how this all works.

I keep trying to read and understand all of this, but at times it's like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose at full pressure wink

---Barney
[Aug 22, 2008 2:15:12 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: this is a really long work unit

As I understand things, it appears WCG has a mechanism to mark a WU that's been dispatched for analysis and somehow update it's status on a client machine to bring it in front of other WU's on a clients queue.

There is no mechanism, but the mechanism knreed described to assign a due-date to a job. This can be overridden by the techs at any time.... the 20% rule is not in stone. e.g. some rush jobs or betas gets 24 hours or less depending on how long a job is. The client itself has algorithms to make sure all goes to plan and all jobs finish in time.... that is if the power in on.

I think if WCG could cause for due dates to change on work you have already downloaded very many people will get upset that not only crunch for WCG! Picture different project techs playing against each other to get that job you have out on front. knreed has the master key to the joystick and uplinger has the chopper controls and they occasionally do odd stuff late at night, at the office laughing

I keep trying to read and understand all of this, but at times it's like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose at full pressure

---Barney

think I watched 1 too many Leslie Nielsen caper scenes?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 22, 2008 3:19:56 PM]
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Re: this is a really long work unit

Sekerob,

Yours and others insights are appreciated.

Now, here's a WU


Workunit Status

Project Name: FightAIDS@Home
Created: 08/09/2008 21:19:44
Name: faah4289_indazoleOH_benzyl5F_MIN_xmd19220_00
Minimum Quorum: 2
Initial Replication: 2


Result Name Status Sent Time Time Due / Return Time CPU Time (hours) Claimed/ Granted BOINC Credit
faah4289_ indazoleOH_ benzyl5F_ MIN_ xmd19220_ 00_ 1-- In Progress 08/11/2008 01:18:12 08/23/2008 01:18:12 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
faah4289_ indazoleOH_ benzyl5F_ MIN_ xmd19220_ 00_ 0-- Pending Validation 08/11/2008 01:17:11 08/11/2008 05:48:53 3.86 88.0 / 0.0


that will likely miss its deadline. (I'm W GMT + 4) and it's almost 1900 here now; so unless the client this is dispatched to is a lot faster than my system, it's likely going to do one of two things.

1). be late
2). not arrive and have a 3rd instance be re-dispatched.


I understand things happen, systems crash, people have to run away like a long tailed cat who's just had it's tail pinched by the rail of a rocking chair.... but having a limit (something less that 10 days of stuff in your queue) might help some of this and get the WU's returned earlier.

At least, if nothing else, setting the due time to say 5 days would at least dispatch the duplicate our sooner.

No arguments... just pure observations.
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JmBoullier
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Re: this is a really long work unit


Workunit Status

Project Name: FightAIDS@Home
Created: 08/09/2008 21:19:44
Name: faah4289_indazoleOH_benzyl5F_MIN_xmd19220_00
Minimum Quorum: 2
Initial Replication: 2


Result Name Status Sent Time Time Due / Return Time CPU Time (hours) Claimed/ Granted BOINC Credit
faah4289_ indazoleOH_ benzyl5F_ MIN_ xmd19220_ 00_ 1-- In Progress 08/11/2008 01:18:12 08/23/2008 01:18:12 0.00 0.0 / 0.0
faah4289_ indazoleOH_ benzyl5F_ MIN_ xmd19220_ 00_ 0-- Pending Validation 08/11/2008 01:17:11 08/11/2008 05:48:53 3.86 88.0 / 0.0


that will likely miss its deadline. (I'm W GMT + 4) and it's almost 1900 here now; so unless the client this is dispatched to is a lot faster than my system, it's likely going to do one of two things.

1). be late
2). not arrive and have a 3rd instance be re-dispatched.

Barney, you forgot two cases:
0.1) It's already completed and uploaded and will be reported with the next request for work before the due time (still 2 h and 18 mn when you sent your post)
0.2) It's not yet completed but it has started early enough for being finished , uploaded and reported before the due time.
Also, note that regarding the 3rd instance to be re-dispatched case 1 is the same as case 2 from a scheduler viewpoint. Only when the WU will be complete on the server will we know if your partner was late or not responding.

Regarding assumptions on the queue size of this machine we (you and me) simply don't know. It can well be that it is a not recent machine that its owner is using as in the basic Grid Computing definition, i.e. it is switched on only when its owner needs it and it takes that many days to reach the end. If that is the case and the settings are the default ones I would rather see things this way:
1. WU "A" takes about 4 elapsed days to be processed
2. a few hours before completing, a new WU "B" is requested and wait as "ready to start"
3. WU A completes and starts uploading its result files while WU B starts processing
4. a few hours before WU B completes (i.e. about 8 elapsed days after the start of WU A) a new WU "C" is requested and WU A is reported.

I am sure there are thousands and thousands of such machines in "normal members" homes, or in the farms of some participants who collect everything with a processor inside to boost their statistics (maybe a little less nowadays with the current costs of energy smile ).
No arguments... just pure observations.

No problem, it's always interesting to share different points of view and to try figure things out as accurately as possible.

Cheers. Jean.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by JmBoullier at Aug 23, 2008 1:24:26 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: this is a really long work unit

Jean,

You are correct about the two points. Initially when I started writing my comments about the conditions, I had them in my head... of course I was interrupted and forgot all the points... I'm sure you know how that goes.

As to turning a system on / off ... yup.. it happens... so something that should complete in say 5-6 hrs takes many days... there are a lot of conditions can be observed...
[Aug 23, 2008 1:53:49 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dan60
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Re: this is a really long work unit

I don't want to distract this thread, so who ever reads about these very long running FA@H tasks and has one, please post the job name here . This allows others to see what particular batch this is. There are several in circulation, long and normal. The long are not prevalent as the average project daily run time reported is still relatively low with 8.85 hours (light blue curve in below graph). So please discuss that topic in there:

As for the nearing end and reaching the point where the techs will switch over the version, the simplest is to watch this graph. Many more you find when following the link below in my signature.

Members who have selected to only run FightAIDS are strongly recommended to go to My Grid > Device Manager, select the device profile associated with your client(s) and check that the "If there is no work available...." box. When FA@H temporarily has no assignments for the interim period, WCG will send other jobs to keep your client busy. It is very much appreciated.

thanks


https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/addpost?parent=177911






faah5011_4fiv_1hbv_00_2 took more than 40 hours (can't tell exactly)








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