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adrianxw
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Project weight won't apply.

This machine is assigned to profile "Home" which is set to custom profile and has it's weight set to 500. I can update and contact the server, but the weight in BOINC Manager does not change, it is zero.

This was working fine before I set it down to zero, (I wanted the machine crunching something else), but now doesn't seem to want to return to 500.
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Sekerob
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

How did you set it to zero? Were you actually able to save the custom profile with a zero resource share / project weight value? Probably a local value got messed up which is likely fixed if you detach that client from WCG and re-attach.

The simple Project Suspend in your client would have been enough to redistribute the shares to the other active projects.

[Added: It's unfortunately possible to set the project weight to zero and save it. Don't know if this is by design, or an omission of a minimum value check]
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at May 5, 2008 4:52:18 PM]
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adrianxw
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

As you have found, you can change it to zero, although I usually set it to 0.1. Why should I not be able to set it to zero if I so desire - it leaves the door open for the project to be contacted if the other projects are all offline, but gives a very low rate of LTD accumulation, so I don't suddenly get wu's from the projects I don't want.

I do this all the time on many different BOINC projects.

The simple Project Suspend in your client would have been enough to redistribute the shares to the other active projects.

No. Doing that distributes the share on a percentage basis across all the remaining projects, that is not what I want to do. For this particular event, I wanted all of the share sometimes allocated to wcg to be moved to a single other project.

The "why" I am doing this is not relevent - I choose to operate my systems my way.

I have reset wcg, this seems to have had the desired effect. I now show 500 share, (5%), and it has downloaded another wu.
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Sekerob
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

hmmm ""The "why" I am doing this is not relevent - I choose to operate my systems my way."" You are total master of your machine. No need to emphasize that but why CA's are named CA's has a reason!

Zero is not desirable because we try to avoid problems as the one just occurred.... BOINC in past has had issues with that value for several parms leading to advises like resetting/detach/attach needs to re-normalize things.

Not knowing all the programming rationelle it could be a bug as well. Entering 0.01 in the resource share transmitted fine but was stored as 100.0 in the account file on the client, which cant be correct or wanted.

Anyway, thanks for sharing and identifying an issue which we will communicate to the webmaster.
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[May 6, 2008 4:10:39 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
adrianxw
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

You are total master of your machine.

Indeed so.
No need to emphasize that

You wanted me to run my machine in a different manner - one which would not have acheived my goal.
The simple Project Suspend in your client

Patronising. I am quite aware of how the client works. You are assuming I am ignorant.

If I can't set the project to 0.1 share, (so that the client shows it as 0.00%), then I will have to detach to avoid a residual percentage in my display and increasing LTD. That then removes the utility of having the project still there and available to ask for work if all others fail. Being able to set the share to 0.1 or even zero seems a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do.
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Sekerob
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

andrianxw, one could arrive at a few more 'assumptions' from this rather aggressive retort.

As layed out, the value is incorrectly transported from website to client. The 0.1 is a legal value. A 0.01 is also a legal value except if you look in the account_worldcommunitygrid.org.xml file it is not stored the same (may depend on client version), which is why it was reported as a 2 part bug. The website owners will evaluate, make correction and possibly identify/confirm a client bug for the developers to take on.

Thanks again for bringing this anomaly to our attention.
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retsof
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

If you are only running WCG, the resource share can be any reasonable number, which I would suspect to be non-zero. Whatever it is would be equated to 100%. "No new tasks" has the effect of a resource share = 0.

I have set projects to 0.1 or even 0.01 in the past, for projects I wanted to run rarely. It is difficult to guarantee anything with such a small slice of the work, if another one has 99%+. At the moment, everything is set to 10.0 for convenience, and all except WCG have "no new tasks" enabled so they won't get new work. That is a lot easier to manage if you want to control it manually. It is easy to hit the button now marked "Allow new tasks" if I want it to get something. I have been doing that once per year, just to keep everything alive, if they still exist.
(Some don't.)

It is also very easy to hit "No new tasks" for a few days before I go out of town, to drain the queue before turning off the computers.

Note: I am attached to over 50 BOINC projects on one of the computers here.

WCG is the only project running at the moment, so that 10.0 equates to 100%. If two projects were enabled, each one would be 10/(10+10) or 50%.

Juggling the BOINC percentage causes strange problems in the scheduler. New projects always think that they have 100% and fill up the queue regardless of other projects, at least until they update their first workunit.

BOINC Project weight considers WCG as a whole in comparison to other BOINC projects like SETI, not the WCG subprojects like HCC, AC@H, FAAH or HPF2. You can adjust your my grid/my projects to set parameters for the mix of those desired, but multiple projects have equal weight. It is also possible to adjust the project profiles in one of the four device managers (default, home, school, work) if you want certain computers to run certain WCG projects or combined projects.

One of the Russian projects only allows multiples of 10, rather like an ATM. You can only get 10.0, 20.0, ... 100.0. 0.01 or 0.1 is not allowed at all there.
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[Edit 5 times, last edit by retsof at May 6, 2008 7:38:23 PM]
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adrianxw
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

That is a lot easier to manage if you want to control it manually. It is easy to hit the button now marked "Allow new tasks" if I want it to get something.

Ah, but that assumes you are there to make the manual interventions.

Consider this scenario, the actual one from last week in fact. SIMAP started it's monthly update on the evening of 30th April. I have set several projects to "no new tasks" to clear my 2 super quads. Now, I have seen from the SIMAP site that this months run may only last for a few days.

No worries except 1st May is a holiday here, and I have booked 2nd off. I am travelling to friends on another island early morning 1st May for the long weekend, won't be back until evening/night 4th May.

Now, I want both my quads to crunch SIMAP for as long as the work lasts, so I leave all but a couple of projects suspended or drained as a result of the no new work, and set them to 0.1 share.

Now if SIMAP finishes while I am away, which was the case, then BOINC sees the cores going idle, can't get anything from SIMAP and so grabs work where it can, from the really low share projects. At the same time, the LTD for those projects has not built up to the level at which they start to crunch when the machines should have been running SIMAP.

When I get home, I can shut BOINC, adjust the debts as I want them, start it up, release the projects and away it goes.

If I had set no new tasks for all projects, the machines would have stood idle.

BTW, typically these machines are attached to ~15 projects, (not all the same although there is some overlap), of which perhaps 10 have quota available at any one time. It changes with the demands of the projects, particularly the ones with periodic work availability.
New projects always think that they have 100% and fill up the queue regardless of other projects, at least until they update their first workunit.

Another reason why I don't want to use detach/attach to manage the situation.
It is also possible to adjust the project profiles in one of the four device managers (default, home, school, work) if you want certain computers to run certain WCG projects or combined projects.

Yes, I know. I have already done that.


I don't know what the other guys problem is. He has a crack at me, when I point that out, he throws a hissy fit and yet I'm being aggressive!
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by adrianxw at May 6, 2008 9:08:17 PM]
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

BOINC doesn't handle micro-managing well.

Now, I don't want you to get offended by the term - there is nothing wrong with controlling BOINC in fine detail if you want. BOINC just doesn't respond well to it. BOINC is intended to run completely hands-free. While it fails to quite live up to that standard, it really doesn't respond well to constant adjustment. Even an occasional adjustment can have unexpected effects.

In fact, once you start controlling it manually, you find yourself making more and more fine adjustments to stop it going off and doing what it wants. This is why I don't recommend the manual control approach to anyone.

And (retsof) just one minor correction: new projects request the smallest possible unit of work initially. During that first request, BOINC downloads the preferences and recalculates the percentages based on the new weights.

Can anyone reproduce this zero weight bug? It will help the techs to fix it quickly if we can provide as much information as possible.
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adrianxw
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Re: Project weight won't apply.

BOINC just doesn't respond well to it.

I've been crunching BOINC since the first public release when Seti was the only project, I know it can be flaky. In some respects it is much better now, but in others, I think some of the "improvements" have been counter productive.

In this, (and other), case(s), I don't see how I can acheive what I want without manual control. If I just crunched steady old plodder projects which always had work, of the same type, without any rogue wu's - then I would probably just leave it alone. That is not the case however.

I have found that by adjusting my quotas, and S/LTD, I can generally get it to do what I want. The quotas I do myself, I suppose an account manager might cut down the work there, but I'm not sure the technology is mature enough. I know some of the RPC's they use are also somewhat flaky as I use some of them myself. The debt manipulation I have largely automated. I have a set of Perl scripts I've developed of the years which set the debts as I wish.

Generally I don't have a problem. The reason I started this thread was to report an aberrant behaviour which I was not seeing at other projects.
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