| Index | Recent Threads | Unanswered Threads | Who's Active | Guidelines | Search |
| World Community Grid Forums
|
| No member browsing this thread |
|
Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 48
|
|
| Author |
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
That is flops can be calculated in lots of different ways - and they just picked the method that yielded the biggest numbers (probably due to pressure from Sony). The result is that the numbers from the Folding@Home project can't be compared meaningfully to anything else - they exist in their own bubble of meaninglessness. http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PS3 How are the FLOPS calculated? People often use the number of Floating point operations per second (FLOPS) as a metric for the speed of a computer. One question that arises is how to compare machines with radically different architectures. In particular, what requires only a few operations (or even just a single operation) on one machine could require many operations on another. Classic examples are evaluations of functions like the exp(x) or sin(x). One GPU and Cell hardware, functions like this can often be calculated very quickly, say in one cycle, while this is often counted as 10-20 operations for other machines. We take a conservative approach to FLOP calculation, rendering quantities such as exp(x) or sqrt(x) as a single FLOP, if the hardware supports it. This can significantly underestimate the FLOP count (as others would count an exp(x) as 10 or 20 FLOPS, for example). Others take a much less conservative approach and we are considering giving two counts, adding a more traditional (less conservative) count as well. The ideal comparison would be to run Folding@Home on the supercomputer itself to test its speed. In this sort of comparison, Folding@Home would likely do very well, and we are investigating the best way to perform this benchmark, as we expect people would be interested. |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
So they've come up with a system that actually penalises their PC users? I'm afraid we will never have a fair basis for comparison, unless they manage to come up with a work unit that can be run on all platforms and give the same result. But that's not likely to happen.
I have reached the point where I simply don't believe what Folding@Home say, and that's really very depressing. Their credit calculations in particular are shockingly arbitrary. And why don't I trust them? Because they keep publishing these petaflop claims and trying to directly compare them to general purpose architectures. It makes them look good, but it's simply not true. I think it hurts the distributed computing community more than it helps. And every other week, someone comes here demanding a PS3 client from WCG. You think it hasn't been suggested before?! |
||
|
|
chelloocom.xahmol
Cruncher Joined: Aug 2, 2007 Post Count: 23 Status: Offline |
So they've come up with a system that actually penalises their PC users? I'm afraid we will never have a fair basis for comparison, unless they manage to come up with a work unit that can be run on all platforms and give the same result. But that's not likely to happen. I have reached the point where I simply don't believe what Folding@Home say, and that's really very depressing. Their credit calculations in particular are shockingly arbitrary. And why don't I trust them? Because they keep publishing these petaflop claims and trying to directly compare them to general purpose architectures. It makes them look good, but it's simply not true. I think it hurts the distributed computing community more than it helps. And every other week, someone comes here demanding a PS3 client from WCG. You think it hasn't been suggested before?! I know it has suggested before (and before and before). I only react on the in my opinion somewhat shortsighted reasoning for directly stating it is not worth to spend effort on. As I said, even if the petaflops/ps3 performance/etc IS grossly overestimated, even you can not deny the tremendous PR value it had to all parties involved. To many people, the PS3 client for F@H is the only reason they have ever even heard of Distributed Computing. Most of these people do not even know of the existence of WCG, unless they as enthousiast F@H folders join a team that happens also to crunch at WCG. (by the way: the only reason I have ever heard of WCG is exactly that: started at F@H at my PC, joined a team to do this and saw that this team was also active at WCG and decided to give that a try as well. Only I did so before the PS3 was there). I also am somewhat surprised that while IBM seems to be a huge sponsor of WCG, they did not think of using WCG to show of the power of the processor they helped creating. [Edit 1 times, last edit by chelloocom.xahmol at Dec 17, 2007 4:09:54 PM] |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
WCG are looking for ways to exploit consoles. If an opportunity came up, they would seize it with both hands.
At the moment, though, consoles are just too limited, and F@H are the only project to create a work unit to fit the limitations. I'm disappointed that the cell group didn't come to WCG first, as well. Cell computing has potential far beyond the limits of consoles. |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I have recently been reawakened to the idea of using the PS3 for grid computing. After reading this post it appears it 'doesn't make sense yet' if it ever will. I remember originally thinking how dumb the idea was considering many factors including the $600 - $800 cost when they first appeared and scarcity of machines.
It caught my attention when I seen best buy selling the PS3 consoles for $399 in stores a few days ago and having a decent amount in stock to boot. I got to thinking I could run at least two PS3 machines for the grid at that price compared to $800 for a low end PC while saving a decent amount of space. I've seen a few articles pop up lately talking about using computational computing to predict drugs interactions in the human body. I wonder if these type of calculations would be suitable or not? I think they are called, Computer Aided Drug Design(CADD). http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/ab...ACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 http://www.pharmacy.manchester.ac.uk/research...rugdesign/computer_aided/ P.S - I agree that making something look better then it really is sick and disgusting to see. Biased and tainted results can make everyone involved in the distributed computing scene looks like cranks to outsiders. |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
rbolo29, this is exactly what AutoDock does - it is used in FightAIDS@Home and Discovering Dengue Drugs - Together.
|
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello chelloocom.xahmol,
I also am somewhat surprised that while IBM seems to be a huge sponsor of WCG, they did not think of using WCG to show of the power of the processor they helped creating. I'll imitate Sekerob and say: Search is your friend. We put out a query within IBM back in November 2006 to find out what can be done with the PS3. We are well aware of the publicity value of a distributed computer program on a console, but we need an outside project that meets our requirements. Folding@Home is well-positioned. They are actively trying to grow their user base AND they can program their own projects. I think that the limitations of the PS3 platform are scaring off most researchers. Lawrence |
||
|
|
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
There are a number of products that incorporate the same CPU as the PS3 and think to have read that IBM is working on the next supercomputer using it.
----------------------------------------Search-engines being my friend, though sometimes one needs to know how to formulate a question else trash is served bumped by meta manipulators, diggers, delicios and stumblers, found this older news item as the top hit: http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/20210.wss ![]()
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I think that the limitations of the PS3 platform are scaring off most researchers. I'm sorry I guess I'm a little slow. What would those be? If I install Yellow Dog or some other linux on the system why can't I use Boinc for Linux? |
||
|
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I'm sorry I guess I'm a little slow. What would those be? If I install Yellow Dog or some other linux on the system why can't I use Boinc for Linux? The Cell processor only has 1 PPC core. You have to figure out a way to use the SPEs for whatever algorithm you need to run if you want speed. Not a problem for simple masks and convolutions that are the staple of graphics, but it can be daunting for a neophyte programmer to figure out what to load into the caches for the SPEs. A lot of programmers stay away from assembly languages and need a good deal of time to achieve proficiency. Without experience, it can be a slow task to figure out what can be done efficiently and what has to be avoided to keep the memory traffic reasonable. Folding@home spent a lot of time figuring out what they could run and what would choke the memory bus if they tried it. They were definitely NOT neophytes when they began. Lawrence Added: I might be over-emphasizing assembly language here. But you definitely have to check the assembly output of your compiler when the real limit to your speed will probably be the memory bus. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Dec 18, 2007 4:12:12 AM] |
||
|
|
|