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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 28
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
It's not a hard deadline! WCG can chose to accept work no matter how late it is.
For beta work units, and other high priority work, WCG set the deadline very soon so that work is sent to faster machines, and is prioritised by the client. Aborting work completely defeats the object of this. Please leave it alone and stop trying to micromanage the scheduler. Frankly, the algorithms used are far too complicated for mere humans to understand what is going on. Analysing just a single scheduler decision takes ages, and is almost impossible without the debug log. You still get credit, your work is still counted and used. Even for normal work units, with a normal deadline, there is a "grace period" where late results are given credit. I know micromanaging is fun, and it makes you feel that you are fine tuning the performance, and squeezing that last bit of performance out of your computer. But doing so messes with BOINC's estimates and scheduling rules. In one way, you are solving your own problem. Abort enough work, and WCG will mark your computer as unreliable, and won't send you beta work or high priority jobs at all.... Sorry if I repeated any of Sekerob's comments, but I felt this was important enough to restate. |
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zombie67 [MM]
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: May 26, 2006 Post Count: 228 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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It's not a hard deadline! WCG can chose to accept work no matter how late it is. Of course. Projects can choose to accept late work, and even issue credits retroactively. Without knowing the policy in advance, we must assume a deadline is set for a reason, and the project knows what it's doing. Therefore, we must assume any work after a deadline that is just a waste of time and energy. And in this case, it is. Once that deadline passed, another copy was sent to another cruncher. And only one of the two is needed back. For beta work units, and other high priority work, WCG set the deadline very soon so that work is sent to faster machines, and is prioritised by the client. See my earlier comment. Any deadline 24 hours or less has the same result with regard to scheduling and prioritization. Had it been set to (say) 23 hours, the work would still have been done in exactly the same time, but without the abort problem that you are trying to avoid. In other words, the project is causing the abort problem, not the crunchers. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
How do you work that out? Do you know something about the scheduler I don't? (That's quite possible.) Or are you just making it up as you go based on a sketchy knowledge of how you think it might work, based on what you can see? Because I think you are totally wrong....
The resend timeout is separate from the deadline, I think. The techs watch beta work very carefully, so your concerns are out of proportion. If you want all your work to progress smoothly without any issues, then please opt out of the beta project. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
The only hard prediction seen is that the 2 WU in the quorum linked in the OP were under 6 hours. The flops packed in the header of a work unit are just estimates. Very often my desktop crunches those WU's in 50/60% of the original predicted time.
----------------------------------------Hope one day, there will be an 'Info' View in BOINC with the key parameters. BOINCview e.g. already lists out all attached project DCF's, my key reference to judge if something is awry on the machine.
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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zombie67 [MM]
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: May 26, 2006 Post Count: 228 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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How do you work that out? Do you know something about the scheduler I don't? (That's quite possible.) Or are you just making it up as you go based on a sketchy knowledge of how you think it might work, based on what you can see? Because I think you are totally wrong.... Yes, I'm making it up. <sheesh> Did you read the document about EDF at the link I provided above? Be sure to reed the page abour "Less than 1 day until deadline". "If a Host is in Earliest Deadline First one of the following triggers is true: o Computer is over committed, o Less than 1 day until deadline, or o Deadline is before reconnect time." So anything with a deadline of =<24 hours causes EDF. The resend timeout is separate from the deadline, I think. The techs watch beta work very carefully, so your concerns are out of proportion. The whole point of the deadline is to trigger the resend. If you want all your work to progress smoothly without any issues, then please opt out of the beta project. That is completely beside the point, and has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. The project doesn't want people aborting results, then they need to set the deadlines correctly. There is no upside to setting them too short. EDF is EDF, wether it is 6 hours out or 23 hours out. ![]() |
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ANCHULA-MARK
Senior Cruncher UK Joined: Jul 20, 2006 Post Count: 196 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I just downloaded an 8 hour WU, that the deadline is only 6 hours out. I aborted it because there was no point since it would be late. See for yourself here. Everyone was allowed only 6 hours to crunch this. As has been mentioned the completion time is only an estimate, I had 10hrs est for a wu but it completed in 6, some others for the same wu took 8 hrs plus but all valid results received credit. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
zombie67, that information is out of date. Sorry. The scheduler has been entirely rewritten since then.
Everyone else: this is a non-issue. Feel free to report things you feel are out of whack - but don't abort stuff just because you think something is wrong. |
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zombie67 [MM]
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: May 26, 2006 Post Count: 228 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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zombie67, that information is out of date. Sorry. The scheduler has been entirely rewritten since then. Even so, it is still accurate. This is straight from John McLeod VII, the guy who rewrote the scheduler, from the BOINC alpha testing alias (of which I am a member): "Computation deadline = report deadline - ( connect every X + switch projects every X, + 1 day)" So let's do the math with some best case values: Computation deadline = 6 hour report deadline - (connect every .01 days + switch projects every 0 (only this project) + 24 hours) Computation deadline = 6 - (.01+0+24) Computation deadline = -18.01 Do you see now? The *best case* would have to be a report deadline of 24.01 hours or greater, to prevent EDF. In summary, there is no difference between a report deadline of 6 hours, or 23 hours. Both will cause EDF immediately. Both will for the the result to the front of the queue. Using 6 hours is causing some people to do the natural thing, by aborting results. Nobody wants this, but it is clearly happening. Using 23 hours (or anything reasonably larger, but less than 24.01) will still cause the goal of EDF, but not cause people to abort results. So why stick with 6 hours? It makes no sense, and it tells me that the project does not understand the scheduling logic. So here is the feedback (which is the whole point in running a BETA): The project needs to increase the report deadline. ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by zombie67 at Jun 23, 2007 11:48:43 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
First, a nice simple reason why it won't work: Sometimes WCG need to send out normal results with the deadline a day or less away. These high priority tasks should still be preempted by beta work, under most circumstances.
Secondly, the whole concept of EDF isn't used by the new scheduler. It performs round robin simulation to determine which projects are in deadline trouble. Thirdly (and this is the killer), the logic has changed. #define DEADLINE_CUSHION 0No more 24 hour padding. Since I have actually studied the source code, are you going to continue arguing, or will you drop this exceedingly trivial matter? |
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zombie67 [MM]
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: May 26, 2006 Post Count: 228 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Since I have actually studied the source code, are you going to continue arguing, or will you drop this exceedingly trivial matter? I'll take JM7's word over yours, thanks. He wrote it, and he knows it better than anyone. In any case, leave it like it is if you want. It's your project. But then don't complain when people abort tasks. They're doing the logical thing. Also, you shouldn't running BETA tasks if you don't want feedback. ![]() |
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