Information

[Flasher]

Now, I'm not bringing this up to start a "vaxers vs. non-vaxers" debate.  I'm bringing it up because I think my doctor is wrong.

So, I got a letter in the mail today.  It's from my pediatrician.  It is informing me that since her office partner specializes in preemies and children with chronic conditions, they have decided that parents  who have refused to vaccinate their children will no longer be accepted as patients.

Ok, I get that.  But here is my problem.  My children are vaccinated, and have been from day one, for virtually everything on the recommended schedule.  They've had all their boosters and get the flu shot every year.  The only vaccine I have opted out of is Gardisil.  I refused it for both my son and daughter.  Now, one of my main reasons for opting out of this is because cervical cancer is not a community infectious disease.  You are not going to catch it sitting on a bus or touching a door knob or by standing near someone.  This is a lifestyle disease.  My children not being vaccinated against cervical cancer will affect no one in that office.

I called and asked for clarification, but I was told the decision is final.  It doesn't affect my daughter since she's 18 now, but my son has been going to this pediatrician since he was 2 (he's 14 now).  I'm shocked.  And mad.  I just don't get it. 



 

[oceanbreezes423]

I can't even begin to know your frustration, BUT this makes absolutely NO sense to me whatsoever!!!! It seems that more and more each day we are losing are right to have our own opinions, and make our own decisions! There are several religions that refuse ALL vaccines. Are they not allowed at the doctor either? It is like that Dr. office is telling you, Our way or no way! I hope they lose many of their patients, maybe then they will see the error of their ways??? Hang in there!

[scrappinmom99]

I would fight him on that one. Gardisil is completely different than the other vaccines , like you said, in terms of how it is spread. I have a 15yo son and 9yo daughter. I was on the fence for a long time about Gardisil because it was so new. I put off having my son get the vaccine until he was old enough and knew what it was for. He learned about it (HPV among tons of other things that I would have turned beet red learning about in mixed company LOL) last year in health class. We talked about it and he opted to get the vaccine. I think I am going to wait until my daughter is older as well. But I don't see how this in any way affects preemies or other children.It's not like the measles or chicken pox etc.  I'm sorry you have to deal with this - I'm hoping you can get this resolved soon

[CarrieG]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

[mgehrke]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

I'm with you Carrie - I also don't have sons only girls and thought this was strickly for girls. I don't understand how they can drop you for this. Makes no sense to me at all.

[Flasher]

As I understand it, the boys can carry the HPV virus, thus transmitting it to girls. 

[beachlover]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

I'm with you Carrie - I also don't have sons only girls and thought this was strickly for girls. I don't understand how they can drop you for this. Makes no sense to me at all.

me three!  and by the way, this should be something to concern yourself with as an adult, near adult - WTH is this pediatrician's issue?  I would make a complaint to the AMA but they are obviously not the right choice in doctors anyway!  Education and a medical degree does not automatically make an intelligent person - as we can tell here!

[Flasher]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

I'm with you Carrie - I also don't have sons only girls and thought this was strickly for girls. I don't understand how they can drop you for this. Makes no sense to me at all.

me three!  and by the way, this should be something to concern yourself with as an adult, near adult - WTH is this pediatrician's issue?  I would make a complaint to the AMA but they are obviously not the right choice in doctors anyway!  Education and a medical degree does not automatically make an intelligent person - as we can tell here!

She's been recommending for my daughter since she was twelve . . . eleven for my son.   

[ratgirl]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

HPV causes gential warts so you're saving your son a ton of pain in the future by having him vaccinated as well as being a responsible person in general since one would hope he would feel responsible for spreading this incredibly contagious disease to others in contact with him. Not vaccinating males isn't just bad for them since they could suffer anogenital (or skin pretty much anywhere) pain and disfigurement, but also because not having them done because they can't get cervical cancer is like saying males aren't responsible for taking pregnancy precautions because they aren't the ones who can get pregnant. 

Since HPV is so contagious (skin to skin contact is all it takes), that it can be passed via non-sexual contact, parent to child, one child to another, etc.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6179597_hpv-t ... ldren.html
Oral HPV is an issue as well. Children are also not careful at all about spreading germs. It's gross, but they reach into their pants all the time to scratch or just because, and then they touch people, objects, etc. There's also HPV transmission via contact with non-anogenital parts of the body carrying this infection. It's in no way a "lifestyle" disease. Even if it was, there is no way to guarantee that your child will choose to follow the same "lifestyle" choices you do. Even if they do intend to follow your rules regarding their sexuality, kids make dumb, impulsive mistakes. Why make that mistake a permanent one? Do you really want to punish your child with an incurable disease for breaking your sexual rules? Grounding them is one thing. Forcing them to live with genital warts and possibly cancer or even death is not an appropriate way to punish a child for making a one time mistake--or for disagreeing with your lifestyle choice. It happens. Parents and their offspring don't always turn out to have the same ideas. You've been given a chance to protect your child (or someone else's) from deadly cancer. Even if your child got cervical cancer 25 years from now and they *did* get it from having sex in high school, would you really sit on the edge of the hospital bed, watching her waste away, and think, "I'm really glad I didn't get her that vaccine. She made a lifestyle choice when she had sex with her longtime boyfriend and she deserves this painful, ugly death." 

Just something to consider, even if it was simply an STD only. But it's not. Your kid could never have had sex and still could have it and spread it. Pointing fingers and placing blame isn't something we should risk the public health over. Anyway, that's why I agree with your doctor's choice.

[CarrieG]

I looked at the vaccination schedule on our fridge....youngest has to have a shot after her b-day in july...not sure why they sent it this early but owell..lol
it has the Gardisil listed as optional for females 13-21 yr old...............nothing about males at all.................wacky....maybe it is not  part of our state mandates??
none of my older girls have gotten this vaccination--is not something in our realm of worries.....

[CarrieG]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

HPV causes gential warts so you're saving your son a ton of pain in the future by having him vaccinated as well as being a responsible person in general since one would hope he would feel responsible for spreading this incredibly contagious disease to others in contact with him. Not vaccinating males isn't just bad for them since they could suffer anogenital (or skin pretty much anywhere) pain and disfigurement, but also because not having them done because they can't get cervical cancer is like saying males aren't responsible for taking pregnancy precautions because they aren't the ones who can get pregnant. 

Since HPV is so contagious (skin to skin contact is all it takes), that it can be passed via non-sexual contact, parent to child, one child to another, etc.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6179597_hpv-t ... ldren.html
Oral HPV is an issue as well. Children are also not careful at all about spreading germs. It's gross, but they reach into their pants all the time to scratch or just because, and then they touch people, objects, etc. There's also HPV transmission via contact with non-anogenital parts of the body carrying this infection. It's in no way a "lifestyle" disease. Even if it was, there is no way to guarantee that your child will choose to follow the same "lifestyle" choices you do. Even if they do intend to follow your rules regarding their sexuality, kids make dumb, impulsive mistakes. Why make that mistake a permanent one? Do you really want to punish your child with an incurable disease for breaking your sexual rules? Grounding them is one thing. Forcing them to live with genital warts and possibly cancer or even death is not an appropriate way to punish a child for making a one time mistake--or for disagreeing with your lifestyle choice. It happens. Parents and their offspring don't always turn out to have the same ideas. You've been given a chance to protect your child (or someone else's) from deadly cancer. Even if your child got cervical cancer 25 years from now and they *did* get it from having sex in high school, would you really sit on the edge of the hospital bed, watching her waste away, and think, "I'm really glad I didn't get her that vaccine. She made a lifestyle choice when she had sex with her longtime boyfriend and she deserves this painful, ugly death." 

Just something to consider, even if it was simply an STD only. But it's not. Your kid could never have had sex and still could have it and spread it. Pointing fingers and placing blame isn't something we should risk the public health over. Anyway, that's why I agree with your doctor's choice.

you obviously are more informed...........but that doesn't make me stupid or irresponsible---seeing as I always trusted our doctor when he said he didn't feel it was a concern for my daughters ..........................
 

[Scrap Bug]

Wow!  Well, it sounds like that Dr. is not a keeper anyway.   

We had a horror story with my dd when she was in 7th grade and had to get her vaccines for school.  I took her down, but refused the Gardisil based on a lot of research I had done, and talking with a friend from another state who was a pediatrician, plus people I knew who had vaccinated, etc.  There are some cases here in our state of adverse affects, and at the time - this was not offered to my son, so I believe it was only for girls a few years back.  Our state governor initially mandated it, but after the public outcry reversed that decision.  I have a friend who didn't know they reversed the mandate, and she was upset b/c it requires several visits and she and her daughter when through a nightmare process, of which I'm not going to discuss here, b/c I don't know all the details and not my story.

Anyway, the Dr. ripped into me when I told her we weren't doing it - I tried discussing with her my concerns, but she kept interrupting and literally kept yelling at me, proceeded to give my dd a sex education lecture and also told my daughter that when school started they would immediately send her home for uniform violation because she was too fat to fit in her pants!  OMG I was spitting MAD!!!!!  My dd had agonized over what to wear b/c all she had been wearing was basketball shorts and had grown a lot that summer, so she finally decided on her old uniform pants even though, yes - they were a little snug, but she had a top over them and had to lift up her top while the Dr. did the normal vitals or whatever it's called.  

Anyway - this Dr. is one that is well known amongst our friends and co-workers to have a really BAD bedside manner. - and I make sure to let everyone know who asks who to see or not to see. She is in practice with her husband who is complete opposite and is our regular Dr. I have not and will not ever go to her again, nor let my kids.  My husband did once b/c she was the only one available (go figure).  I warned him not to see her, but he did and then came home and said "what a real "bi***".  

Oh, and on top of that, when I dropped of my daughter's vaccine report to the school they noticed that the Dr. had missed one. I had to go back, and they made me pay another co-pay even though they admitted it was their fault for missing that one. 

Anyway - I digressed a little, but that is my unpleasant story.  I totally disagree with your Dr.  You aren't stupid.

[CarrieG]

Wow!  Well, it sounds like that Dr. is not a keeper anyway.   

We had a horror story with my dd when she was in 7th grade and had to get her vaccines for school.  I took her down, but refused the Gardisil based on a lot of research I had done, and talking with a friend from another state who was a pediatrician, plus people I knew who had vaccinated, etc.  There are some cases here in our state of adverse affects, and at the time - this was not offered to my son, so I believe it was only for girls a few years back.  Our state governor initially mandated it, but after the public outcry reversed that decision.  I have a friend who didn't know they reversed the mandate, and she was upset b/c it requires several visits and she and her daughter when through a nightmare process, of which I'm not going to discuss here, b/c I don't know all the details and not my story.

Anyway, the Dr. ripped into me when I told her we weren't doing it - I tried discussing with her my concerns, but she kept interrupting and literally kept yelling at me, proceeded to give my dd a sex education lecture and also told my daughter that when school started they would immediately send her home for uniform violation because she was too fat to fit in her pants!  OMG I was spitting MAD!!!!!  My dd had agonized over what to wear b/c all she had been wearing was basketball shorts and had grown a lot that summer, so she finally decided on her old uniform pants even though, yes - they were a little snug, but she had a top over them and had to lift up her top while the Dr. did the normal vitals or whatever it's called.  

Anyway - this Dr. is one that is well known amongst our friends and co-workers to have a really BAD bedside manner. - and I make sure to let everyone know who asks who to see or not to see. She is in practice with her husband who is complete opposite and is our regular Dr. I have not and will not ever go to her again, nor let my kids.  My husband did once b/c she was the only one available (go figure).  I warned him not to see her, but he did and then came home and said "what a real "bi***".  

Oh, and on top of that, when I dropped of my daughter's vaccine report to the school they noticed that the Dr. had missed one. I had to go back, and they made me pay another co-pay even though they admitted it was their fault for missing that one. 

Anyway - I digressed a little, but that is my unpleasant story.  I totally disagree with your Dr.  You aren't stupid.

belated hugs to you and your daughter Melissa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 

[Flasher]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

HPV causes gential warts so you're saving your son a ton of pain in the future by having him vaccinated as well as being a responsible person in general since one would hope he would feel responsible for spreading this incredibly contagious disease to others in contact with him. Not vaccinating males isn't just bad for them since they could suffer anogenital (or skin pretty much anywhere) pain and disfigurement, but also because not having them done because they can't get cervical cancer is like saying males aren't responsible for taking pregnancy precautions because they aren't the ones who can get pregnant. 

Since HPV is so contagious (skin to skin contact is all it takes), that it can be passed via non-sexual contact, parent to child, one child to another, etc.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6179597_hpv-t ... ldren.html
Oral HPV is an issue as well. Children are also not careful at all about spreading germs. It's gross, but they reach into their pants all the time to scratch or just because, and then they touch people, objects, etc. There's also HPV transmission via contact with non-anogenital parts of the body carrying this infection. It's in no way a "lifestyle" disease. Even if it was, there is no way to guarantee that your child will choose to follow the same "lifestyle" choices you do. Even if they do intend to follow your rules regarding their sexuality, kids make dumb, impulsive mistakes. Why make that mistake a permanent one? Do you really want to punish your child with an incurable disease for breaking your sexual rules? Grounding them is one thing. Forcing them to live with genital warts and possibly cancer or even death is not an appropriate way to punish a child for making a one time mistake--or for disagreeing with your lifestyle choice. It happens. Parents and their offspring don't always turn out to have the same ideas. You've been given a chance to protect your child (or someone else's) from deadly cancer. Even if your child got cervical cancer 25 years from now and they *did* get it from having sex in high school, would you really sit on the edge of the hospital bed, watching her waste away, and think, "I'm really glad I didn't get her that vaccine. She made a lifestyle choice when she had sex with her longtime boyfriend and she deserves this painful, ugly death." 

Just something to consider, even if it was simply an STD only. But it's not. Your kid could never have had sex and still could have it and spread it. Pointing fingers and placing blame isn't something we should risk the public health over. Anyway, that's why I agree with your doctor's choice.

As homeschooling parents, I can assure I have had 100% control over kids to this point, especially as pre-teens.  Yes, kids put their hands down their pants and then touch everything in sight.  However, if they've never had sex or been exposed to HPV, they are not going to spread it to anyone or anything.

All that being said, my daughter, now 18 can read and do her own research.  If she wants it now as an adult, I will leave that up to her.  As a minor, she was at no risk. 

Also, my pediatrician was in no way judgmental of my decision to refuse the Gardisil and NEVER PUSHED for it.  Ever.  She only said "I'm bringing it up because that's the recommendation."  If it was so "contagious" and important, she should have dropped us seven years ago at our first refusal. 

[Scrap Bug]

Maybe she's going to lose some kind of funding or maybe some insurances will drop her?  

[Flasher]

Wow!  Well, it sounds like that Dr. is not a keeper anyway.   

We had a horror story with my dd when she was in 7th grade and had to get her vaccines for school.  I took her down, but refused the Gardisil based on a lot of research I had done, and talking with a friend from another state who was a pediatrician, plus people I knew who had vaccinated, etc.  There are some cases here in our state of adverse affects, and at the time - this was not offered to my son, so I believe it was only for girls a few years back.  Our state governor initially mandated it, but after the public outcry reversed that decision.  I have a friend who didn't know they reversed the mandate, and she was upset b/c it requires several visits and she and her daughter when through a nightmare process, of which I'm not going to discuss here, b/c I don't know all the details and not my story.

Anyway, the Dr. ripped into me when I told her we weren't doing it - I tried discussing with her my concerns, but she kept interrupting and literally kept yelling at me, proceeded to give my dd a sex education lecture and also told my daughter that when school started they would immediately send her home for uniform violation because she was too fat to fit in her pants!  OMG I was spitting MAD!!!!!  My dd had agonized over what to wear b/c all she had been wearing was basketball shorts and had grown a lot that summer, so she finally decided on her old uniform pants even though, yes - they were a little snug, but she had a top over them and had to lift up her top while the Dr. did the normal vitals or whatever it's called.  

Anyway - this Dr. is one that is well known amongst our friends and co-workers to have a really BAD bedside manner. - and I make sure to let everyone know who asks who to see or not to see. She is in practice with her husband who is complete opposite and is our regular Dr. I have not and will not ever go to her again, nor let my kids.  My husband did once b/c she was the only one available (go figure).  I warned him not to see her, but he did and then came home and said "what a real "bi***".  

Oh, and on top of that, when I dropped of my daughter's vaccine report to the school they noticed that the Dr. had missed one. I had to go back, and they made me pay another co-pay even though they admitted it was their fault for missing that one. 

Anyway - I digressed a little, but that is my unpleasant story.  I totally disagree with your Dr.  You aren't stupid.

Melissa, sounds like a great doctor.  I've often wondered why some doctors get so upset when patients refuse certain things.  When I was first diagnose with Diabetes my doctor kept pushing Byetta and Januvia, over and over and over again.  Even though my sugars were well controlled with another drug, he would not shut up about these other drugs, getting a little angry at one point.  I kept thinking he is obviously going to get some kickback from prescribing this drug. I switched doctors and reversed my diabetes with the original drug I started with.  Every now and then when I see those class action lawsuit commercials for Byetta and Januvia I wonder how he feels about those drugs now.   

[ratgirl]

you obviously are more informed...........but that doesn't make me stupid or irresponsible---seeing as I always trusted our doctor when he said he didn't feel it was a concern for my daughters ..........................
 

I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to imply that you were stupid in any way or intentionally risking your child's health. Only trying to explain some scenarios that I'm sure no parent would ever want their child to have to experience because of passing on an opportunity to protect them. And your doctor (and everyone's doctors!) should be giving ALL of their patients comprehensive information regarding the risks HPV presents. The doctor should especially do this if they are planning to drop patience for not being protected against it. So, on that front, I think the doctor in question was the irresponsible one. He should have fully explained *why* he insists upon the vaccine for the protection of all of his patients. Why he didn't include brochures and other info on the HPV vaccine when he sent out their letter is beyond me. You are right. In this case, it's the doctor who is doing his patients a disservice by dropping them without full explanation. Again, I'm really sorry for hurting anyone's feelings, it's just frustrating that there isn't more effort put into fully educating every patient on these things. Doctors need to understand that people are depending on them for these kinds of things. Education is an important part of their job.

[ratgirl]

 As homeschooling parents, I can assure I have had 100% control over kids to this point, especially as pre-teens.  Yes, kids put their hands down their pants and then touch everything in sight.  However, if they've never had sex or been exposed to HPV, they are not going to spread it to anyone or anything.
 

That's true. The problem is that kids are inevitably exposed to other kids (and adults) and we have no way of knowing if *they* have it or if your child is being/has been exposed to it by them. Shaking hands at church, touching toys in a store, playing with friends, changing diapers around other diaper-using kids or being exposed to leaky diapers, babysitting kids, etc...it's a very contagious disease that scientists are only starting to discover *how* very contagious it is. You don't know everyone's past exposure history. It's quite possible that any one of us has been exposed and we don't know it yet. Not everyone comes down with symptoms. It's your choice, but the risk of exposure is real and isn't just sexually transmitted as was once thought. It surprises me that so many people who give their kids the protection of other vaccines will skip this one.

[Flasher]

seeing as your son does not have a cervix..........how can they drop him???????????

***edited to warn you I have no teen boys so I was told this was a girl vaccine...lol   im really not an idiot..........

HPV causes gential warts so you're saving your son a ton of pain in the future by having him vaccinated as well as being a responsible person in general since one would hope he would feel responsible for spreading this incredibly contagious disease to others in contact with him. Not vaccinating males isn't just bad for them since they could suffer anogenital (or skin pretty much anywhere) pain and disfigurement, but also because not having them done because they can't get cervical cancer is like saying males aren't responsible for taking pregnancy precautions because they aren't the ones who can get pregnant. 

Since HPV is so contagious (skin to skin contact is all it takes), that it can be passed via non-sexual contact, parent to child, one child to another, etc.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6179597_hpv-t ... ldren.html
Oral HPV is an issue as well. Children are also not careful at all about spreading germs. It's gross, but they reach into their pants all the time to scratch or just because, and then they touch people, objects, etc. There's also HPV transmission via contact with non-anogenital parts of the body carrying this infection. It's in no way a "lifestyle" disease. Even if it was, there is no way to guarantee that your child will choose to follow the same "lifestyle" choices you do. Even if they do intend to follow your rules regarding their sexuality, kids make dumb, impulsive mistakes. Why make that mistake a permanent one? Do you really want to punish your child with an incurable disease for breaking your sexual rules? Grounding them is one thing. Forcing them to live with genital warts and possibly cancer or even death is not an appropriate way to punish a child for making a one time mistake--or for disagreeing with your lifestyle choice. It happens. Parents and their offspring don't always turn out to have the same ideas. You've been given a chance to protect your child (or someone else's) from deadly cancer. Even if your child got cervical cancer 25 years from now and they *did* get it from having sex in high school, would you really sit on the edge of the hospital bed, watching her waste away, and think, "I'm really glad I didn't get her that vaccine. She made a lifestyle choice when she had sex with her longtime boyfriend and she deserves this painful, ugly death." 

Just something to consider, even if it was simply an STD only. But it's not. Your kid could never have had sex and still could have it and spread it. Pointing fingers and placing blame isn't something we should risk the public health over. Anyway, that's why I agree with your doctor's choice.

 

I'm sorry, but despite your last comment on this thread, your comment above most certainly does imply that I am intentionally putting my child in harms way.   

[MacSarah]

I recieved similar notification.  My 17 year old has not had (and will not have) Gardisil, per my request.  I believe the vaccine is too new, and without a longer timeframe to study, I do not want to give her something that could hinder her ability to have children in the future.  And we talk regularly about risks, causes and effects, etc.  My 10 year old can continue to be a patient because she is not yet in the reccommended age catagory, but I am expected to agree to that vaccine at the proper time.

I agree that since it is not publically communicable it should not be in the same catagory as the vaccines for polio, measels, etc.

Both of them will be getting a new doctor that has values that align more closely with what I believe.  And I agree, that will be a big change for our family.