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Category: Retired Forums Forum: UD Windows Agent Support [Read Only] Thread: Receiving less points on amd64 because Cool´n´quiet is enabled |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 5
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I have an AMD64 3000+ processor with 2Ghz clock speed with Cool´n´Quiet enabled. The Cool´n´Quiet system set my processor speed to 1GHz if the processor load is low.
The first time i submitted a WU the software estimated my system speed while the clock speed was at 2GHz and i received 232 points and my system overall performance was at 142. The second time i submitted a WU the software estimated my system speed while my processor was at 1GHz because of Cool´n´Quiet and i received less points and my system overall performance is at 92. My point is: i am giving 2GHz processor effort, with computational power similar to a 3Ghz pentium 4. So, i must receive a processor performance of 200 (2 times faster then the default 1.5 GHz Pentium 4), right? I am not too concerned about the points.. i just wanna help, but, if there is a point system, it must be fair. There is something i can do to fix the problem, besides turning off the Cool´n´Quiet? There is someone working to fix this problem? |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
FernandoFavero,
----------------------------------------Each time u return a WU with UD Agent, it runs a benchmark, just prior as u noticed. If your Q&Q is on, it will benchmark on 1ghz....thus if u want points of 2ghz, switch Q&Q off just prior to finishing.......for all WCG knows u could have run it throttled down to 15% then still benchmark it at 50% or 100%....how fair is that? But seriously.....see the Claims Farce Majeure thread....no points system is perfect and cheaters galore....UD Agent points much less subject to manipulation as BOINC open source system is. cheers
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RT
Master Cruncher USA - Texas - DFW Joined: Dec 22, 2004 Post Count: 2636 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Please help us understand the Cool and Quiet. I thought that this feature would slow down the clock rate if the processor started heating up due to heavy load.
----------------------------------------This gets confusing. Before we got into the throttling with the agent lets just talk about the benchmark. The benchmark is run at the end of a work unit. The benchmark, like the science program is primarily floating point so it stands to reason that the benchmark will likely run at about the same speed as the science work unit. At least that is the theory. But the theory was developed in a time where processors ran at one speed. So the thing made great sense. Now that we have things like Cool and Quiet and a default throttling by the UD agent, the whole thing gets quite complicated. You can look at: http://www.unofficialworldcommunitygrid.com/Overall.shtml and http://www.unofficialworldcommunitygrid.com/benchmark.html When complicated by the issue of people trying to "cheat" it gets more convoluted. It seems to me that it will take multiple benchmarks and modifications to help with the accuracy (which is done in BOINC) and perhaps other changes. But then, there are still ways to "cheat". Very messy business. I think I understand your concern but I wonder if it is all worth it. Kind Regards to all |
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Dirk Gently
Senior Cruncher England Joined: Mar 1, 2005 Post Count: 153 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I have dual core intel P4. Intel have a similar variable clock speed idea. I experimented with mine - switching between Windows "Always on" power profile (which disables throttling) and the other Windows "Power Saving" profiles. My clock speed is reported as its rated 3GHz when "Always on" is selected, irrespective of CPU processing load. If Power saving is enabled, the clock speed drops during periods when CPU demand is low - but only to 2.8GHz in my case (maybe because of BIOS settings).
----------------------------------------But in all cases, the benchmark speed reported by BOINC is the same. THis makes sense because when the benchmark tests are running, the processor loading is at its max, so the throttling is removed and the clock speed is the full 3GHz. Similarly, during crunching, the CPU demand is 100%, so the clock speed is at max. This throttling, (Intel or AMD), should therefore have no impact on benchmark or crunching performance, because the 100% demand will "turn up the wick" on the variable clock speed. it will only save power, be cooler and quieter when the processor is idle! I think maybe you should check that there were not other factors affecting your results. Shut down anythlinh else that may be taking processor time. Remember BOINC is on the lowest priority. Another feature of the throttling is one of processor overheat protection. It is supposed to go into clock speed limiting if the processor gets too hot. This will happen in the event of faulty fan or heatsink choked with dust. The dual P4 is prone to this anyway, because it belts out 96W at full steam and the cooler Intel supply is rubbish. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Please help us understand the Cool and Quiet. I thought that this feature would slow down the clock rate if the processor started heating up due to heavy load. Nope, that's overheat protection throttling. A64s and Pentiums do that too, but it's completely different than Cool 'n' Quiet. C&Q is the same idea as Intel's SpeedStep. They both slow down the CPU when it's idle, so that it runs Cooler (and Quieter, assuming your cooling system is temperature-sensitive) when you don't need full power. When the CPU gets busy again, it ramps the clock rate and voltage back up to provide full power when needed. It works really well, in the normal PC usage scenario where it's idle most of the time, with sporadic bursts of high usage. My A64 is set up so that when idle it runs at 960 MHz and 1.1 volts, which allows SpeedFan to turn the CPU fan completely off and still have it stay at only 38C. At full load, it ramps up to 2.64 GHz and 1.45 volts, providing (somehwat overclocked) power on demand. The overheat protection throttling kicks in if, at full load, your heatsink isn't able to keep up and the CPU starts to overheat. If this happens, the CPU will reduce its clock rate back down somewhat to avoid damage. This shouldn't happen though with an adequate cooling system. If your PC is used for crunching 24/7, C&Q won't really matter, since your PC will always be at full load and full power. But it shouldn't hurt anything, either. It's very responsive, and adjusts the CPU speed several times per second according to the load at that moment. It shouldn't normally affect the benchmark results much, if at all. The CPU would be at full speed while crunching the WU. When the WU completed, the CPU might drop back to slower speed while the results are written to disk, since the CPU is mostly idle during heavy disk I/O. But within a half second or so of the benchmark starting up, it should be back at full speed and giving pretty much the same benchmark result as if C&Q were disabled. Hmm... unless the UD benchmark is really short? If it's more like a clock rate estimator loop than a real benchmark, it may not run long enough to fully ramp up the CPU speed, or to average out the initial low speed period. But if that were true, I'd expect a lot more users asking why their UD CPU rating was so low. |
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