Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 28
Posts: 28   Pages: 3   [ 1 2 3 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 3413 times and has 27 replies Next Thread
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
BOINC deadline change

What does this mean for us crunchers?

Well, first and most importantly, it's not going to affect most people at all. There are 3 affected groups:

1. People with very slow computers.
2. People with high "connect to network" preferences.
3. People with lots of other BOINC projects.

The first group: sorry, it's bad news. Your work was nearly always duplicated before, and now the wastage is being trimmed. Save your pennies; upgrade :-)

Second group: change the setting! It does no harm to leave it low. If you need to, you can still cache up to a week of work. Should be enough for nearly everyone, I hope.

Multi-crunchers: no worries. BOINC should handle your situation automatically. It may focus on WCG to make the deadline, but then it will ignore WCG for a while, to honour your project weightings.

If I missed anything, I'll edit this post later. Happy crunching!
[May 30, 2006 5:07:58 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

Your comment to point 1 is ruthlessly honest.....coming from the world of half full glasses, rather then half empty, tell the members, that if their machine manages to do a WU in less than 7x24 wallclock hours from receipt, they should be happy to continue, in fact, where in past their 5-7 day delivery was often a duplication, its now fully valued!

love struck
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at May 30, 2006 5:15:34 PM]
[May 30, 2006 5:13:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech
Joined: Nov 8, 2004
Post Count: 4504
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

A little bit of info about the impact this will have:


  • 96% of results that are ever returned to us are returned within the first 4 days
  • 98% of results that are ever returned to us are returned within the first 7 days


Most users have the connect to server setting set to a low value and only have their computers connected to a us or a couple of BOINC projects. These users are unlikely to notice this change.

Didactylos pointed out the users most likely to experience the change above.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by knreed at May 30, 2006 6:22:11 PM]
[May 30, 2006 5:55:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
keithhenry
Ace Cruncher
Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Post Count: 18667
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

Hmm, interesting. Since the BOINC Manager seems to determine that it needs to get more work based on its estimated to completion times, it's not impossible for BOINC to download work that won't complete in time. Granted, you'd need a 4 day or so connect to server setting, but it seems quite possible. My experience is that regardless of the specific connect to server setting I have, the actual time (CPU) that the WU's take to crunch varys from 50% of that setting to 200%. Yes,the tom completion numbers are estimates - apparently very bad ones. If someone is going to be traveling all week without network access and sets their connect to server value to 5 days, they'll get what BOINC thinks is five days work. In reality, those WU's could finished in as little as 2-3 days or as much as 10. In the latter case, some number of WU's won't get crunched before the deadline. (I have GOT to find out the method to the madness behind those to completion estimates).
----------------------------------------
Join/Website/IMODB



[May 30, 2006 6:21:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

Knreed, the BOINC client 5.4.9 only shows the 3 week "points" deadline. Is there a place, other than the log, where one can see the "quorum" deadline? The Results Status page also gives the old deadline, but not the quorum one.....its in that 2% fringe, but still.
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
[May 30, 2006 6:38:20 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech
Joined: Nov 8, 2004
Post Count: 4504
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

There are still some workunits that had been loaded with the 3 week deadline that are being sent out now. Later today, the workunits with the 1 week deadline will start being sent out. This deadline will show on the BOINC client and on the results status page.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at May 30, 2006 6:49:32 PM]
[May 30, 2006 6:48:51 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

keithhenry, you make a good point. However, remember that work units are all the same estimated size. It is only when a work unit is part way complete that BOINC can make a more informed estimate.

On average, the estimated size is very accurate. In theory, then, a number of work units queued up should average out, with some small and some large. This is partly true in practice, but sometimes a batch consists mostly of smaller (or larger) than average work units.

This is an old problem, of course - and it will remain with us until someone works out how to predict the length of time a non-deterministic algorithm will take to complete...

A more practical solution would be to provide a more random mix of work units. Again, in practice this is difficult. Only so many work units can be stored on the server, and work units are sent to and from the researchers in batches.
[May 30, 2006 7:42:05 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

Does anyone know if the reissue time is being changed to 1 week as well?

If your WUs will still be reissued to the fast & reliable replacement hosts after 4 days, then that's still the effective deadline, regardless of what the software shows.

If the reissue time is being stretched to 1 week, that's fine, but we should expect our validation queues to get a bit longer, and our daily scores to dip for a few days until the queues finish growing.

Edit: Never mind, Didactylos just answered me in another thread. Apparently the reissue time will be gradually increased to match the stated deadline. Thanks, all.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at May 30, 2006 8:00:38 PM]
[May 30, 2006 7:56:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

Answered in the other thread. No need to repeat yourself :-)
[May 30, 2006 8:02:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
keithhenry
Ace Cruncher
Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Post Count: 18667
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: BOINC deadline change

keithhenry, you make a good point. However, remember that work units are all the same estimated size. It is only when a work unit is part way complete that BOINC can make a more informed estimate.

On average, the estimated size is very accurate. In theory, then, a number of work units queued up should average out, with some small and some large. This is partly true in practice, but sometimes a batch consists mostly of smaller (or larger) than average work units.

This is an old problem, of course - and it will remain with us until someone works out how to predict the length of time a non-deterministic algorithm will take to complete...

A more practical solution would be to provide a more random mix of work units. Again, in practice this is difficult. Only so many work units can be stored on the server, and work units are sent to and from the researchers in batches.


Yes, the REAL problem is before BOINC even starts crunching on a WU. It just seems a bit disconcerting to see the to completion time for all FAAH WU's I have go from 28 hours to 11 hours or vicea versa before BOINC's even started crunching them (same with HPF just different relative numbers). The fact that all the WU's for the same project have the SAME to completion time and they all changed in lockstep somehow before a single nibble has been crunched just screams hokey numbers. Those are the ones that really determine when you get another WU given your connect to server setting. The one in process has some voice but it's fairly minor.
----------------------------------------
Join/Website/IMODB



----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by keithhenry at May 30, 2006 8:41:37 PM]
[May 30, 2006 8:39:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 28   Pages: 3   [ 1 2 3 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread