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cool HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

The HPF1 -> HPF2 transition AND the fact that HPF1 continues to run on the grid seems to be causing confusion. Since the grid is all about crunchers crunching for a cause I thought I'd repost a response and an explanation:

First of All:
All work done on HPF1 is real and will go into the database for biologist!!

that said I can see why you might wonder if we are killing time, So I'll explain.

we set out to do 100 genomes (human and other organisms that humans interact with like pathogens)

while we spent a year calculating/crunching the gene-finding guys got better at what they do. Also they sequenced a bunch of new mammal genomes (like elephant and latipus and cat) and they found new human genes (new genomes to compare to plus better techniques == new genes in what we thought was nonfunctional DNA).
(see this guy's lab to get a flavour of why new genes are being found:
http://genes.cs.wustl.edu/BrentLab/MB-Lab-index.html
http://genes.cs.wustl.edu/BrentLab/MB-Lab-research.htm
)

So this M. Brent guy gave us a bunch more genes and possible genes to run.

Also other scientists from around the world came up to us and said "what about this virus, what about rice, people eat rice and people are starving, what about this new relative of malaria, what about armadillo, which is the only other animal that gets this disease ..." on and on. All these genes are mucho important, so I begged IBM to let me keep running ...

Also the sequencing people are sequencing new organisms all the time and interesting / high importance genes are hitting the databases all the time.

So in the end we've finished our initial goal, but IBM has been nice enough to let me widen the focus to include more genes that are either new-human-genes OR new genes from high interest organisms.

All work done on HPF1 is real and will go into the database for biologist.
No work currently on the grid is benchmark OR code testing OR in anyway funny.

HPF2 will be different(more tightly focused) in that we'll be trying to focus on human secreted and malaria genes (and that will be that) (HPF2 tries so many structures per gene that it takes so long to run that even 5000 genes represents a whole project).

Thanks for crunching.

monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey monkey
[May 26, 2006 1:18:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
depriens
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Re: HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

Great! Thanks a lot for the update, it's really good to read these updates every now and then.

The only question remaining: WHEN will HPF2 start, or has it started already? I've noticed that all the HPF workunits now start with ey* and they used to start with ep*. Or is this just coincidence?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by depriens at May 26, 2006 1:52:28 PM]
[May 26, 2006 1:51:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

Soon. Soon. Not this week, though.

It will be easy to spot, because there will be a new version of Rosetta and an official announcement.
[May 26, 2006 1:59:56 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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tongue Re: HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

knreed has just given some important information about the upcoming HPF2 project:

1) Users will never be opted into a project that they have opted out of.
This is something that I was interpreting incorrectly. Once HPF2 starts up, everybody will be selected to run it by default unless they opt out. But this will not affect any decision that they have made about FAAH.

2) HPF2 on BOINC has compression so the file downloads will be much smaller.
This is one of my 2 complaints about BOINC. It does not include compression by default, so each project has to add its own. As far as I know, the small FAAH files are not compressed. This is a big negative for people on dialup. So it looks like we will be supplying compression for new BOINC projects (I hope).

My other pet peeve was the 'Leave in memory when preempted' bug that was fixed with BOINC version 5.4.9. However, Rick Alther has recently pointed out that there are still occasional problems of this sort even with 5.4.9, So we still have some debugging to do. But at least this error has been greatly reduced.

Lawrence
[Jun 15, 2006 10:25:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

Thanks for updates and clarifications....again the memory in/out issue. It's catch 22. If i run in "keep in memory" mode and shut down, the WU crashes, regardless of progress. If others run "unload from memory", their WU gets damaged @ e.g. benchmarking. I'm tempted to think its yet unknown specific hardware/software combination related whatever the expert said in another thread yesterday..."keep in memory is save during benchmarking". Logically, there is no single answer and one simply has to revert at present to the emperical setting i.e. DePriens keeps it in, Sekerob keeps it out. I've just forced a Benchmark, and the WU resumed fine. I'm not going to re-try the 'keep in' and softboot or close BOINC....the WU is lost either 5.2.13 or 5.4.9, since BOINC will not close the science part properly.
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[Jun 16, 2006 2:41:16 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
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Re: HPF1 -> HPF2 transition

Sekerob,

Actually, you can also minimize the occurance of this error by setting your 'Switch between applications every:' time to something greater then the length of most HPF1 workunits. So if you set it to around 4-5 hours then the workunit is likely to complete (depending on how powerful your computer is) before BOINC decides it is time to run another project. This doesn't resolve the potential problem when benchmarks are run - however - benchmarks are only run every 5 days while the application switching occurs every 60 minutes by default.

Using this setting can let you set the 'leave in memory' choice to 'No' and still get mostly the same benefits in terms of reducing this error.

Kevin
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at Jun 16, 2006 1:19:49 PM]
[Jun 16, 2006 1:17:51 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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