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Overall performance of computers and how it affects points

I'm a bit mystified by something that seems very strange, and I hope someone here can provide some clarification.

Without detailing my system (not really necessary), suffice to say its overall performance with UD agent typically ranges anywhere from about 129 to 139; IIRC, I think I might have actually observed it as high as 141 to 143. Most of the time -- about 16 hours/day -- I'm active on my computer with a number of other programs running at the same time, such as my calendar, word processor, browser, antivirus, and even a couple of other programs, and my system usually seems to be rated at somewhere around 134.

Now, when I had to leave on Friday and expected to be gone for one, or possibly two nights, I closed down every program I wouldn't need -- everything I just listed above, including even my antivirus program, since my firewall would be sufficient. My thoughts were that this would maximize available RAM, as well as eliminate unnecessary CPU cycles for things like periodic backups, updating my clock display and news ticker, notifications of email, daily virus scan, etc., and thereby provide UD agent with maximum resources. But after being gone for more than 24 hours, I returned, checked my UD agent, and was surprised to see that my system was rated -- at least for that work unit on which it was then working -- at a very low number (it was late and I don't recall exactly, but I think it was either 108 or 112 or something like that -- VERY low). What I don't remember is how long it had been crunching that particular WU, but it seems like it wasn't one of those real long ones that took a couple of days, and I think that's right because this device has posted points everyday (if it was working on a unit that took longer than 24 hours, then there should be one day without any points, or at least low points one day and high the next, correct?).

Now that I am back using my computer with a number of programs running, and naturally am also using CPU cycles for things like typing out this message, my UD agent is now rating my device at 139. This present WU was begun over 12 hours ago while I was still in bed, so maybe that makes a difference.

So, my questions are: if I free up some RAM by shutting down programs, but I do that AFTER a WU has already started, does UD agent begin using that additional RAM for that current project? If so, does the rating for that device ever change during the WU (I've never actually noticed)? If it doesn't change, how does that reconcile the difference in points that I would have received; e.g., if I have two identical computers running identical WUs, but one minute before the WUs are assigned, I shut all other programs down on one computer while letting them continue on the other until just a minute after the WUs are assigned. Let's say that one computer is rated at 139 and the other is rated at 112, even though -- except for 2 minutes -- both computers have identical resources available to UD agent, and I would expect them to both complete the WUs in about the same amount of time. Are points assigned strictly on the basis of the device's displayed rating that is, presumably, determined at the beginning of the WU, or is there anything that compensates for the things I've just mentioned. Finally, if UD agent does NOT take advantage of additional RAM when it becomes available, is there not some way to fix that, because I'd assume that it will always work in reverse of that, i.e., if plenty of RAM is available to UD agent, and I start up additional programs, I expect UD agent to surrender whatever I need -- if it truly isn't supposed to have any impact on my other computer activities and performance.

Hope someone here can answer some of my questions.

Cheers.

Bill Velek
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Mar 12, 2006 10:15:56 PM]
[Mar 12, 2006 10:11:40 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Overall performance of computers and how it affects points

I can answer some of your questions.

UD does no memory management at all. Memory management is handled solely by Windows, and Windows will give as much memory as possible to the tasks that need it, and swap out unused memory to the pagefile. Just because a work unit is only using a small amount of physical memory doesn't mean that the memory allocation isn't optimal. If you want a better idea of what is going on, view the "page fault" column in Task Manager, or use System Monitor to graph physical and virtual memory use for the process, and chart page faults. (A page fault is where an application tries to access memory that is paged to disc, and Windows has to pause the application and copy the memory into physical memory.)

My understanding of how UD works is that from time to time (at random times, I think) it runs a benchmark to produce your processor score. This benchmark is not affected by the average conditions during the work unit, but only on the actual conditions at the precise time the benchmark runs. It is supposed to reflect your average operating conditions, but in reality it's a pretty bad yardstick.

So, don't sweat it. Maybe migrate to BOINC if the proprietary craziness gets you down.
[Mar 12, 2006 10:53:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Overall performance of computers and how it affects points

Thanks for the reply. I took a look at Task Manager just for the heck of it; I've never had "view" set to display page fault, and while I was at it I also set it to display virtual memory. WCGrid_Autodock.exe is not the highest regarding page faults; in fact, right now I have 12 processes that have higher values, including a couple that are more than 10 times as high. But WCGrid_Autodock.exe has the highest "Memory Usage", at a fluctuating amount of about 58,100k, and also -- by FAR -- the highest "Virtual Memory Usage" with 282,660k, which is at least 10 times greater than every other program except 2, and nearly 10 times them, as well. So I glanced down at my drive light and noticed that it flickers about every second or so, and I have nothing running to require disk access right now. I never noticed that before, because my computer sits under my desk -- out of sight and out of mind. Now, my RAM usages varies slightly from moment to moment, but at this second it shows that I'm using 348MB out of my 512MB, which should mean that I still have 164MB of actual RAM left -- not enough to fully absorb the 283MB of virtual memory, but at least more than half of it.

Anyway, I don't have much computer knowledge, so I'd like to know this. If I still have a fair amount of actual RAM capacity left over -- as I always do -- is there any need or benefit for me to expand my RAM up to 1 Gig? I think that it would be worthwhile if it would keep WCGrid from wearing out my harddrive with constant disk accesses, ... but WILL it actually eliminate the use of virtual memory and the need for disk accesses.

Thanks.

Bill Velek
[Mar 13, 2006 3:32:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Overall performance of computers and how it affects points

The disk accesses may not be paging operations. There's a lot going on in a modern OS, and it takes a lot of work to determine exactly what is happening at a given time.

For normal use, if you have "enough" memory, then you have plenty for WCG. If you use demanding applications in addition to WCG, then you will always want more memory. But then, you will want more memory for applications like that anyway. (I'm talking about CAD, 3D modelling, video rendering... not just your average office suite.)

Windows is clever. It won't copy unused memory around if it can help it. So it is unlikely that Windows will ever even touch that unused virtual memory. I can't prove this without a lot of work, but knreed may be able to confirm it.

In summary: sure, get more memory if you want. Things may run a little faster, and a little smoother. But WCG doesn't really figure in the equation. WCG is only an issue if you are really tight for memory, and all your applications are page faulting like mad and your drive is thrashing every time you switch from one application to another.
[Mar 13, 2006 6:26:25 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Overall performance of computers and how it affects points

So, my questions are:

Hi Bill, In addition to the excellent technical explanations by Didactylos on how RAM works, can I just add my answers to your general questions:
if I free up some RAM by shutting down programs, but I do that AFTER a WU has already started, does UD agent begin using that additional RAM for that current project? If so, does the rating for that device ever change during the WU (I've never actually noticed)? If it doesn't change, how does that reconcile the difference in points that I would have received; e.g., if I have two identical computers running identical WUs, but one minute before the WUs are assigned, I shut all other programs down on one computer while letting them continue on the other until just a minute after the WUs are assigned. Let's say that one computer is rated at 139 and the other is rated at 112, even though -- except for 2 minutes -- both computers have identical resources available to UD agent, and I would expect them to both complete the WUs in about the same amount of time. Are points assigned strictly on the basis of the device's displayed rating that is, presumably, determined at the beginning of the WU, or is there anything that compensates for the things I've just mentioned.

The benchmarking takes place everytime you receive a new WU, it does not change at all in between times - therefore it cannot compensate in the way you are asking above - In those circumstances, although they will both finish in roughly the same time, the one with the higher displayed benchmark will give more points.
Finally, if UD agent does NOT take advantage of additional RAM when it becomes available, is there not some way to fix that, because I'd assume that it will always work in reverse of that, i.e., if plenty of RAM is available to UD agent, and I start up additional programs, I expect UD agent to surrender whatever I need -- if it truly isn't supposed to have any impact on my other computer activities and performance.

The benchmark takes into account the amount of RAM available at the time, it cannot adjust in between the running of WU's. What will happen if you then start using resources for other programs is that the UD Agent will slow down and the WU will take longer to process - the benchmark used at the end to calculate the points will stay the same.

So to summarise, to obtain the best possible benchmark, you need to have the least processes running at the time UD Agent downloads/uploads a WU.
And obviously the more RAM you have installed, the higher the benchmark - the max is reached around 1.25GB RAM

I hope this helps, Ady smile
[Mar 14, 2006 9:08:37 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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