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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Beta Testing
Forum: Beta Test Support Forum
Thread: BETA-tasks erroring out |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 50
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JSYKES
Senior Cruncher Joined: Apr 28, 2007 Post Count: 206 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I fear this is beginning to look like a lot of problems dropping out of this Beta run. I have a WU with almost 2 days run time to completion (it still has 3 hrs to run, in theory), several haven't progressed beyond 0.5% in more than 10hrs (they were user aborted, total waste of time) and one at 7.5% and seemingly stuck, which I will give a bit longer and then cut if there's no progress. Some deadlines appear to have moved, others seem to be static and going to be exceeded - will these be 'too late' and the work lost or will they be honoured, I wonder?
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TPCBF
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 2, 2011 Post Count: 2173 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I fear this is beginning to look like a lot of problems dropping out of this Beta run. Well, finding problems is the purpose of having such Beta runs.The Jurisica page does state a few thing that they intend to fix, but overall a bit more timely interaction here the this forum would be appreciated... Ralf |
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shanen0
Cruncher Joined: Feb 4, 2021 Post Count: 27 Status: Offline |
Latest mention of Docker? Over two months old. And seems to be a problem report?
Just got a nag alert to install it, but I am not tilting in that direction. The Docker website started out with a false poll... Maybe time to just let BOINC go away? Haven't put it on any of my new machines and now down to the last one... |
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TPCBF
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 2, 2011 Post Count: 2173 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Latest mention of Docker? Over two months old. And seems to be a problem report? Sorry, but your post doesn't make any sense, at all.Just got a nag alert to install it, but I am not tilting in that direction. The Docker website started out with a false poll... Maybe time to just let BOINC go away? Haven't put it on any of my new machines and now down to the last one... Docker? Well, yes, that was mentioned by WCG in connection with the BETA testing of a potential new project (BOM), but that is ON THE SERVER SIDE! There is nothing for you to install, no Docker website to go to, with no "false poll". And you would thus not get any :"nag alert to install", at least not related to anything BOINC or WCG related. So given all this, and the fact that in 4 years of having signed up to WCG, you have not managed to even get a single 14 day badge, by and large means that you are simply barking up the wrong tree... Ralf |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3315 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I believe he is referring to the notice put out by BOINC 8.2.4 about installing Docker, but that has nothing to do with WCG.
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TPCBF
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 2, 2011 Post Count: 2173 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I believe he is referring to the notice put out by BOINC 8.2.4 about installing Docker, but that has nothing to do with WCG. What sane project would require to run on Docker?  I have been running most of my hosts on 8.0.2 and just updated a single host to 8.2.4, just to see the message you're talking about. This would be total bonkers, and certainly, WCG does NOT require to install and run on Docker. I still stand by my assessment that he's barking up the wrong tree.. Ralf |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3315 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I believe he is referring to the notice put out by BOINC 8.2.4 about installing Docker, but that has nothing to do with WCG. What sane project would require to run on Docker? I have been running most of my hosts on 8.0.2 and just updated a single host to 8.2.4, just to see the message you're talking about. This would be total bonkers, and certainly, WCG does NOT require to install and run on Docker. I still stand by my assessment that he's barking up the wrong tree.. Ralf The notice doesn't specify any project. It simply says 'Notice from BOINC Some projects require Docker. We recommend that you install it. Instructions are here.' - AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W - AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W - AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz |
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alanb1951
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Jan 20, 2006 Post Count: 1317 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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What sane project would require to run on Docker? From the December 20, 2024 entry in the Jurisica Lab "Operational Status tab": In light of the merger of this pull request (introducing "BUDA" to the latest BOINC server releases), we find a strong motivation to upgrade our BOINC server version to track BOINC upstream as nearly every bioinformatics application we have experience running in an HPC environment we could run on the grid, if only we could run containers. We have considered multiple different strategies to accomplish this migration in the past, and now that we have occasion to test existing and new applications with the newest BOINC server version during this downtime offsite, we will put together a roadmap after the launch of MAM1 and upgrade BOINC server to use BUDA/containers going forward. There are already BOINC projects out there using VirtualBox to get an exact environment (not that I'm subscribed to any of them...), and containers might offer a more lightweight (but adequate) approach in some cases. Unfortunately, however, there will probably be user systems where using containers or a VM won't just work "out of the box" (especially if GPU access is required), so there's a risk that some users might have problems (or even give up completely)... Cheers - Al. |
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TPCBF
Master Cruncher USA Joined: Jan 2, 2011 Post Count: 2173 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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What sane project would require to run on Docker? From the December 20, 2024 entry in the Jurisica Lab "Operational Status tab": In light of the merger of this pull request (introducing "BUDA" to the latest BOINC server releases), we find a strong motivation to upgrade our BOINC server version to track BOINC upstream as nearly every bioinformatics application we have experience running in an HPC environment we could run on the grid, if only we could run containers. We have considered multiple different strategies to accomplish this migration in the past, and now that we have occasion to test existing and new applications with the newest BOINC server version during this downtime offsite, we will put together a roadmap after the launch of MAM1 and upgrade BOINC server to use BUDA/containers going forward. There are already BOINC projects out there using VirtualBox to get an exact environment (not that I'm subscribed to any of them...), and containers might offer a more lightweight (but adequate) approach in some cases. Unfortunately, however, there will probably be user systems where using containers or a VM won't just work "out of the box" (especially if GPU access is required), so there's a risk that some users might have problems (or even give up completely)... Cheers - Al. I have taken the Jurisica note as using Docker on the server side, not on the client. And I consider the blanket notification of the BOINC client version 8.2.4 by Berkeley that makes non-technical folks install a Docker environment as nonsense, when the vast majority of projects simply don't require it. I have played with Docker both on the server side as well as trying to use it on the client side myself, for a rather large software project I have been working on the side for quite a while. It is a b**ch to properly configure on the server side, on a good day and an utter mess (and most of the time under-performing) on the client side. And that applies not only for Docker, but all container implementation. One thing that a lot of folks in all of this forget is that the basic idea behind BOINC is (at least was) to utilize spare processing power for (mostly) scientific purposes. Not to have people run BOINC client farms. Ralf |
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alanb1951
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Jan 20, 2006 Post Count: 1317 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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If a specific project requires something like Docker (or VirtualBox) than this project needs to provide support for users of this specific project to provide those prerequisites. Agree 100% - I gather CERN (and others) provide lots of information when it's needed...I have taken the Jurisica note as using Docker on the server side, not on the client. And I consider the blanket notification of the BOINC client version 8.2.4 by Berkeley that makes non-technical folks install a Docker environment as nonsense, when the vast majority of projects simply don't require it. Agreed about that blanket notification: mind you, fairly typical (and not the fault of any BOINC project...)As for BUDA itself -- it's my understanding that it's an acronym for a BOINC server feature which is intended to facilitate the distribution of Docker-wrapped applications to client systems. There's a section about it in the BOINC wiki, although none of it seems to actually discuss what ends up being sent to the user's machine(s), including whether it has to send the entire environment and application every time or whether, once downloaded, subsequent runs are "parameters and data only" in the same way as for a conventional application. (And as I have no Docker experience, I have no idea what is and is not possible...) I'd love to hear the experiences of someone who is actually running a Docker-based BOINC app, but I gather that's currently as likely as winning a lottery without buying a ticket... One thing that a lot of folks in all of this forget is that the basic idea behind BOINC is (at least was) to utilize spare processing power for (mostly) scientific purposes. Not to have people run BOINC client farms. Again, agreed 100% -- the trouble is that I suspect some folks at BOINC central don't realize that not every BOINC volunteer is a techie, and that some of them will have already managed to "break" their Windows systems enough to confuse any Docker installation, no matter how good the supporting documentation might be :-(I'm guessing it'll be a fair while before WCG can think about launching any such project, even an in-house one. I think the WCG user community is safe for now (especially if it ignores Berkeley's advice!) Now, all we need are some reliable instructions on how to safely undo what their installation method has done... Cheers - Al. |
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