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TPCBF
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

I was simply reporting matters as they actually are.
So did I. And if the shoe fits...


Ralf
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[May 5, 2023 11:59:39 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
TPCBF
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

I could care less of anyone hoards work units or not - just as long as it's not toilet paper. ;)
If anyone wants to hoard or queue a bunch up for a while, it doesn't matter to me.

What only matters to me is if I need a workunit when one of my cores needs one, that it's available to keep the core busy. If anyone cache's or hoards, go for it. In my eyes it's more on WCG to have WU's available to everyone no matter what. That's the way that it's always been here in the past as well as the other grids I am involved with, although it seems DENIS@home is a bit on the intermittent side of things.
The problem with all of that is that it is now almost a year and WCG has not been able to function without issues. Any testing or determination of the overall system just gets more complicated and thus drawn out when too many folks think too selfish and as I put it "are hoarding WUs". There are people who have proclaimed proudly that they have caches of 5+ days and then lament "they don't have any problems" when everyone else is having issues with download errors.
It just doesn't allow for a proper assessment of the basic functionality. And we are far from having things "in running order", despite WCG Towers proclaiming otherwise...

Ralf
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[May 6, 2023 12:06:28 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
bicotz
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Canada
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

Are you also getting any ARP1s now? At 22:02 UTC I got 13 ARP1-tasks (from generation 136).

Adri


Got a few ARP gen 137; first time in many weeks!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bicotz at May 6, 2023 12:38:49 AM]
[May 6, 2023 12:36:59 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Aperture_Science_Innovators
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

Are you also getting any ARP1s now? At 22:02 UTC I got 13 ARP1-tasks (from generation 136).

Adri


Got a few ARP gen 137; first time in many weeks!

50 here, as well!
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[May 6, 2023 12:42:16 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nivrip
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

. Any testing or determination of the overall system just gets more complicated and thus drawn out when too many folks think too selfish and as I put it "are hoarding WUs". There are people who have proclaimed proudly that they have caches of 5+ days and then lament "they don't have any problems" when everyone else is having issues with download errors.

Ralf


So you are accusing me of being selfish and hoarding WUs. You clearly think that a cache of 1.5 days is excessive? Well, I don't and I'm sure that there will be many people out there who feel the same way.

I don't usually get involved with incidents like this but your "holier than thou" attitude gets right up my nose.
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ЮРКШИР КРУНЧЕР
[May 6, 2023 3:53:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
imakuni
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

The problem with all of that is that it is now almost a year and WCG has not been able to function without issues. Any testing or determination of the overall system just gets more complicated and thus drawn out when too many folks think too selfish and as I put it "are hoarding WUs". There are people who have proclaimed proudly that they have caches of 5+ days and then lament "they don't have any problems" when everyone else is having issues with download errors.

Is it really the cruncher's fault that boinc allows a 10d cache setting, but more importantly, the server allows such cache to fill up? Sounds more like the a problem on the project end, which is allowing anyone to get virtually as many tasks as they want rather than limiting it to a ~2 per thread basis to make it "fair" for everyone.

Besides, there are valid reasons to run big queues anyways.
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Want to have an image of yourself like this on? Check this thread: https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,29840
[May 6, 2023 5:40:04 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KerSamson
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

I think that the problem is not primarily the size of the cache of some contributors. On my side, I use to maintain a 1.5 - 2 day large cache; currently it is not even possible to reach 24 hour large cache.
Now with the distribution of ARP1 WUs, the download problems are back causing that machines run dry because of the downloading troubles.
Cheers,
Yves
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[May 6, 2023 6:52:32 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

The problem with all of that is that it is now almost a year and WCG has not been able to function without issues. Any testing or determination of the overall system just gets more complicated and thus drawn out when too many folks think too selfish and as I put it "are hoarding WUs". There are people who have proclaimed proudly that they have caches of 5+ days and then lament "they don't have any problems" when everyone else is having issues with download errors.

Is it really the cruncher's fault that boinc allows a 10d cache setting, but more importantly, the server allows such cache to fill up? Sounds more like the a problem on the project end, which is allowing anyone to get virtually as many tasks as they want rather than limiting it to a ~2 per thread basis to make it "fair" for everyone.
Besides, there are valid reasons to run big queues anyways.

I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to run a 10 queue, such as if you have system which chews through work units where a shorter queue leaves the system with idle threads. it is unfortunate that there are some who may use a large queue without realizing the it is too big and some work units will get either server aborted due to not being started on time or they finish some too late to be counted. They may be part of the set and forget crew who feel as long as their system is not idle life is good. Fortunately, BOINC reissues the work unit and it gets crunched, although not as soon as it could and there is some wasted energy and crunching involved.
Anytime there is a system with this many volunteers, not everyone necessarily follows all the conventions of efficiency, but they do contribute.
I'm pretty sure they could do some work on back end to minimize this behavior, but if the number of late units is small enough, it would probably not be worth the effort.
All that being said, the supply issue is still a bit spotty and I have a few threads which are idle due to the almost ever present "no work available " messages. Hopefully, given time, my 2 day queues will be fully replenished.
Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
[May 6, 2023 7:08:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
alanb1951
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

Sgt. Joe,

Thanks for a considered response with no rancour :-)

As it happens, I run about 16-hour queues on 75% of threads, and unless there's a supply crisis (such as that from a few days ago) I usually have enough work to occupy most threads, and I sometimes get to sit and watch whilst my wingmen take days to return things :-)

The main problem with missed deadlines is the ARP1 project, where the next generation WU for a given grid cell can't be created until the previous WU for that cell has validated. (I suspect a lot of folks don't realize that, and it has been a while since there has been work for another "generational" project[1]...) Instead of a typical two or three day turnaround, some WUs have been taking over a fortnight! Other current projects here are less inconvenienced by such delays.

Cheers - Al.

[1] HST1 has a variant on the same theme (though it doesn't seem to be a simple "That's finished, here's the next step" sequence), and FAH2 used multiple generations too...
[May 6, 2023 8:17:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
MarkH
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Re: World Community Grid complete restart

Sgt. Joe; no slap at you here, but for average users this is all akin to metaphysics.

Regarding most efficient way to run or hold on WU's...I've been here almost 3 years and have no idea of those most efficient methods. The average volunteer won't either. We load and go what we can, when we can, on whatever hardware we've got available.

I'm not running high-end servers, or some of the other 'uber-hardware' some are, so limit my downloads to about 32 WUs across 3-4 projects at any time (so about 0.6-0.7 days worth max at one time....sometimes less with WCG issues choking off downloads or uploads.

If holding so few jobs is hoarding I'm at a loss to justify even participating to run 60-80 WUs per 24 hour period while the 'power crowd' is holding onto far more work than even they can process in the same time period. My lone machine runs 23/7 (1 hour rest break), and every morning I can send back my small contribution, as well as through the day if WCG is running right, and I do my part to link up, send/receive WU's, and go about life.

If anything the high-end crowd need to not hold so many jobs at one time, that other more humble users can take a bow once in a while.
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"That science of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth."
[May 7, 2023 1:30:06 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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