Index | Recent Threads | Unanswered Threads | Who's Active | Guidelines | Search |
World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support Forum: Suggestions / Feedback Thread: Is having relatively few projects underway a good or a bad thing? |
No member browsing this thread |
Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 13
|
Author |
|
Martin Schnellinger
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 123 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Hello erveyone,
----------------------------------------In a thread mentioned at the end of this post it has been stated that quote "the grid currently supports computational aid well below its capacity" as there are not too many projects underway right now. Is this really true? Do we, does WCG any data, that crunchers leave WCG if the number of projects is reduced? They got a choics: A: They can switch to the remaining projects, which makes them faster or B: They can stop contributing and leave What is true: A or B? Do we have any data supporting A or B? Thank you. I think it is worth knowing, if it is really a bad thing to have only one project. If for example, the COVID project would be superfast, because it is the only one, wouldn't it be great? Fightnig a direct threat to life should be prioretisised and basic research such as microbiome research should give way to fighting a direct threat like Covid, at least in my view. Here is the link the thread I took the quote from: https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,43509 Thank you for any contributions and the evaluation of the user behavior if the number of projects changess. Thanks again. Bye MS [Edit 1 times, last edit by Martin Schnellinger at Jun 14, 2021 5:45:37 AM] |
||
|
yoerik
Senior Cruncher Canada Joined: Mar 24, 2020 Post Count: 413 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Well, in my view - "basic" research is essential research.
----------------------------------------Understanding our world, our bodies and fighting diseases which kill millions per year, are worthwhile causes - COVID or no COVID. Especially as research dollars have already been diverted in the hundreds of millions to COVID research. You're welcome to only run OPN1 WUs, or give them priority. But your suggestion that it might be better or a good thing for OPN1 to be the sole focus of the grid - I wholeheartedly disagree. The users of the grid have the freedom to decide that for themselves, and intentionally or not, cheerleading for less end-user choice on which projects are available to support, is not a good thing in my book. I for one, am actually reducing my OPN1 WU allocation for a handful of reasons - most notably, that the GPUs are clearly the more effective medium for the project to run - and my handful of CPU cores have even less effect when compared to GPUs. Having more projects ongoing on the grid: creates more options for users; more worthwhile projects benefit from IBM's and Grid resources; and helps ensure a steady supply of workunits for the grid for when other projects pause, or have issues which prevent WUs from flowing. The stats page appears to suggest that MCM got to ~800k wus daily, as SCC paused, when in months prior, MCM was around ~500k. Meanwhile the backlog for MCM reduced its estimate from 28 days in November, to a low of 14.9 days in Marcu 2021. Other factors are almost certainly relevant, such as the code changes, beta WUs, holidays etc - but this at least *suggests* the possibility that MCM sped up *somewhat* as a result. Ultimately, I am very hopeful that more projects are able to access the grid - so that a larger diversity of research is done, more choices for end users, and more scientists benefit from the support that the grid provides, especially ones who don't have the resources or means to launch a BOINC project independently. |
||
|
gb009761
Master Cruncher Scotland Joined: Apr 6, 2005 Post Count: 2977 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I, for one, would like to see MORE projects on WCG - not less, as then that gives choice to the users/encourages a larger section of the crunching community to have their spare computer cycles spinning here.
----------------------------------------As yoerik has said, quite a bit of money/research has been pumped into Covid (quite rightly), but at the same time, whether people want to believe it or not (and yes, there are still some people 'out there', who believe that the earth is flat...), climate change is a real thing and could have far more devastating consequences than Covid. The thing with climate change, is that it's so subtle that it's happening without us really seeing direct impact - thus, luring us into a self sense of security that 'it can be dealt with at a later date'. This, unfortunately isn't true - as it's happening subtly, it'll take a long time to reverse the damage already done - and, certainly in the last 20-30 years, the weather patterns have been changing.... Thus, climate change projects are also important. [Edit 1 times, last edit by gb009761 at Jun 11, 2021 9:38:38 PM] |
||
|
Martin Schnellinger
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 123 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Thank you for the comments.
I whish I had made it more clear in the inital post, that I do not want to prefer any project. So, to make this clear, let us replace the project names with letters. As a consequence, the question is; Was the overall runtime of WCG higher, when there were four projects A, B, C and D or was it higher, when there were only two projects A and B In other words: If possible, I would like to find out, how the shere number of project has influenced overall runtime of WCG. Thank you for any comment or help in the "project neutral" direction Greetings and stay safe and healthy MS |
||
|
Acibant
Advanced Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 15, 2020 Post Count: 126 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
There's a fine listing of WCG projects and when they ended here.
----------------------------------------The end dates could be compared with the global runtime here. It looks more like runtime has steadily increased over time regardless of the number of projects. If anything, the summer months in the northern hemisphere have more of an effect as in most years you see a dip in the runtime as people shut down machines to reduce the amount of heat generated. |
||
|
Martin Schnellinger
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 123 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Hello everyone,
thank you very much, Acibant, for the links to the really skillfully made statistics. Thank you SNURK, great, great work. I agree. I seems, that the number of projects did not have significant influence on the overall runtime. I whish, we could in an effort, reach the runtime of March 2014 again and keep it up on this level. All the best and greetings MS |
||
|
USACITIZENSCIENCE
Cruncher Joined: May 7, 2016 Post Count: 9 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
This is an important topic. While there are nominally eight projects listed in the Research section, only a few of them are providing enough work to meet the demand from contributors. The SCC project is essentially inactive, and the TB project is 'functionally inactive'. Rather than debate 'how many is enough' we should ask IBM if they intend to fully support the projects offered at a tempo that matches or exceeds the number of interested volunteers.
|
||
|
Bryn Mawr
Senior Cruncher Joined: Dec 26, 2018 Post Count: 331 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
This is an important topic. While there are nominally eight projects listed in the Research section, only a few of them are providing enough work to meet the demand from contributors. The SCC project is essentially inactive, and the TB project is 'functionally inactive'. Rather than debate 'how many is enough' we should ask IBM if they intend to fully support the projects offered at a tempo that matches or exceeds the number of interested volunteers. Is it IBM’s call? Surely the amount of work put out by each project within WCG is determined by the amount of work the project team has on hand. IBM support each team by allowing them to put this work out, they cannot invent more work than the project team have. |
||
|
yoerik
Senior Cruncher Canada Joined: Mar 24, 2020 Post Count: 413 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I'd have to agree, Bryn. OPN1 is throttled because of the researcher's side of things - and they've got a large team + a ton of grant / research funds.
----------------------------------------MCM is obviously comfortable picking up more WUs, given the appeal to turn MCM on in the last monthly update. Yes, the debate we had last month over *how many is too many / too little* in terms of projects, doesn't really mean much. However it is clear *something* is up, given the drop in WUs processed since May. https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/stat/viewGlobalHistory.do Whether that is the fault of the volunteers, IBM or anyone else, is unclear. But it is very much a bad faith claim to suggest that IBM isn't supporting the projects. There isn't a shortage of overall WUs ot my knowledge, but that the OPN1 project is throttling itself so it can continue to work at a pace they're comfortable with. That's project-specific, USACITIZENSCIENCE, and the OPN1 team has already given their reasons why they aren't flooding the grid with WUs to fill GPU capacity. |
||
|
Martin Schnellinger
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 123 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Hello yoerik.
Let us hope, that the reason for slightly dropping amounts of processed Workunits is that it is summer, many fellow crunchers are on holidays, as COVID is slowly giving way. Maybe they simply switched off machines during holidays.... I keep on crunching as much as I can Best MS |
||
|
|