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4WhQxmsSdepBpEBjB6rbNUMSgTfK
Veteran Cruncher
The Great State of Texas
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

The information that the research page now provides is akin to driving without a fuel gauge. You know you have gas in the tank but you are clueless as to how much there is left in the tank.


I agree
So now do I get 20 or 50 yr and move on to Other projects (that I don't really like)?
Save the $300/month electric and shut down?

Can Not say I'm happy about this change.
I've got some thinking to do I guess.


coffee
cowboy
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[May 17, 2019 3:26:25 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mike.Gibson
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England
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

I have frozen my estimate of the completion dates from the last advised %ages in the spreadsheet I use to decide which projects to go for next.

I am currently working to 5-year badges on Zika & Aids2 and will then switch to 20-year badge for MCM. Those 3 will take me to the end of next year.

Mike
[May 17, 2019 4:36:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Arquebus
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

So yes, the old calculation was broken to the point of inaccuracy.
Oh, well. I prefer inacurracy to nothing.
That is ridiculous. How can you ask a scientific research project to support inaccuracy?

Besides, the only people who need to know what the end dates are, are the badge hunters, and too many crunchers have expressed a wholly negative opinion on that subject. Pull yourselves together. Techs are never ever going to replace an estimation system with inaccurate data system.
[May 17, 2019 6:36:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Croatia
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

Well hello Techs & Admins, you pretty much did it with this one. Congrats! laughing
(please keep in mind if I do swear a little, it will be just me southern-european way of expression)

You had a system, that worked. OK, it was flawed, but not 'cause of you. It was scientists to put more & more data in.
Most of us got it & plan to have our "sprint to badges" between some of the sub-project endings. & we did it quite successfully (I might add).

Why?
Well, I might be wrong, but this in only my opinion who has more than 10y service with you becoming a top 5 donator in Croatia (population 4 million) & about 20y service in crunching data (for SETi@home, UDgrid & Folding@home on PS3). So what is that, not much experience as a donator, only 20y.
& only got a Golden badge for recruitment to WCG, so not much significance at all as a member here on WCG.

Well, let me just start with this:
1. Your new progress bar is a CHILDISH, to say the least. Maybe you want to look at us (donators) as a childish ones? Don't know, but for me it looks like that.
Why?
Your new progress bar has graphically 5 areas (no bar, 1 bar, 2 bars - half, 3 bars, 4 bars - full), but you use only 3 CHILDISH points to show us project progress (launched, in progress, finishing). For some local farm-boy maybe that's enough of data to process. For someone who's engineer, like me, it's too little data.
If you would use 5 progress points for a project, that would mean something. Now with this way, it's a CHILDISH representation how the project is being run.

Not to mention that children are prohibited to run WCG - but that's another topic.

2. LAYERING DATA.
So nobody said to you that you should delete WCG ECD or delete the percentages for projects in some layer of data. I know I'm not the only one using YOUR DATA in APIs, as a source, to get some plans in order. Many people have been grateful for a topic such as this one:
https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,39475_offset,0
which was enabled by YOUR DATA (& I didn't want to use some 2nd hand data or 3rd hand data for getting information here)
I don't see the problem in having data layered underneath & not shown, as it was not shown before. For example you never saw the ECD of the projects, but from API many of used the data to get our own calculations. Example of link (for FAHB):
https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/api/project?shortName=fahb
You get the DATA such as this one (in bold you got problematic data now):
{"project":{"completionDate":null,"id":119,"name":"FightAIDS@Home - Phase 2","overviewUrl":"\/about_us\/viewNewsArticle.do?articleId=447","releaseDate":"2015-09-30T00:00:00","shortName":"fahb","statisticsUrl":"\/stat\/viewProject.do?projectShortName=fahb","status":"proj_stats.active"}}

Without the your ECD of % of completion, most of us (serious crunchers) are left in dark. & nobody wants to be in the dark! cool

3. DONATING with computer is a boring thing.
All you need to do is setup the computer once & leave it crunching data. Not much update is needed, nor for computer & especially upgrading to new BOINC (once every 3-5 years).
So some of us made a habit of chasing badges, A GAME if you will call it that way. Just something that keeps us motivated with POSITIVE COMPETITION.
What does that mean?
Well, I was almost not getting ZIKA to get the 20y badge. But instead of switching to other projects, I simply went to buying more "data crunchers", such as this ones:
https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewpostinthread?post=603434
So yes, we invest more & more in equipment. Some of the guys here, myself included, bought & setup server on AWS, Google or Microsoft Azure, to get to some badges - so we even invested in getting some nice badges - which we like so much & they can't be traded for anything in the World.

A GAME, has been played for some time, but as you removed the access to the data in your layers, there wont be much of THE GAME left. With that I predict some of the "serious senior crunchers" will left WCG, as they don't want to be treated as children, left in the dark for some boring crunching of data, without knowing the end in sight or to reach their own GOALs.

But what do I know, I'm only a becc.mech.eng., finishing masters in PR, working in one of the most popular companies in the World on making electric cars "fun & fast", the only company that makes "the only electric hypercar in the World".
So what do I know about projects, finishing those, making small steps to get to the end of the staircase...

For me, this is a BAD MOVE, which was not announced (as someone should have said it out loud 1st), which was not communicated at all, which was your own decision (not put for users to vote), which was badly executed (& got CHILDISH graphical representation) & which also stopped some data layering to be drawn from API. All in all, I'm in serious consideration to take my crunching power elsewhere, where it's more politely treated & where I can plan my steps & play to get more (badges or some other insignia).
But what do I know? Only that STEAM is more popular than any other platform (GOG, Origin, Battle, Uplay, ARC, etc.), 'cause it has only 1 feature better than any other platform: ACHIEVEMENT BADGES.

You have taken out with this, the only think which made me stick here on forum, drawn more power to cluster & get people information. A GAME to get more BADGES.
So WCG is not better 'cause of this. It has become more CHILDISH & DULL, 'cause of this.
After 13 long years, 150M points & almost 350k of results given back - WCG has made me think: do I want to stay here & DONATE MORE POWER BLINDLY?
confused

*Edited to appropriate forum language - ErikaT*
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oldies:UDgrid.org & PS3 Life@home


non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by ErikaT at May 17, 2019 7:48:27 PM]
[May 17, 2019 7:05:11 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
NixChix
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United States
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

I would like to add to the comments against the removal of the progress bars towards completion of projects. Removal is very demotivational, as someone previously stated. Upon learning of this, I have now lost all enthusiasm for WCG. Having an estimate of time to completion is key to planning for the badge system, which was added as a motivational tool. It certainly worked on me. I have been motivated to add more processors that I have saved from premature scrapping and put them to work. The work I put into tending to them to keep them running and the cost of energy is motivated by badge collecting. You may now think the badge system was a stupid idea, but it motivates many of us. My family and friends think I am stupid for even participating in crunching. The motivation introduced by the badges has been enough to overcome that. You just killed that.

Removing the progress bars or any way to estimate time to completion destroys any way to decide which project to dedicate resources to. Why don’t you delete the badges too? As I said before, the badges are 90% of why I participate and 100% of why I have 50 cores connected to WCG instead of just one computer. Did I mention that this has just destroyed my motivation to crunch for WCG?

I have volunteered on many things in the real world. But when I sensed that the organized forgot the volunteers and treated them with disrespect I did not hesitate to walk away. I like to feel gratified by my donations of time, money and resources. When I felt “used” or taken for granted, it was time to leave. It was hard, but I no longer felt “used”. Did I mention that I now feel taken for granted?

I know that the inaccuracy of the progress is not your fault, but due to the information, or lack of it from the researchers. It was your decision to delete what little information that we had. That it was unannounced demonstrates that you knew it would be very unpopular. Doing it in secret has taken the “community” out of WCG. Maybe you should put more emphasis to the researchers on communicating to the volunteers as their “payment” for the vast resources that are donated to them. Tell them that is a commitment they must make if they want to join the WCG platform and if they don’t like, it they can set up their own platform and find their own volunteers. That no one other than the volunteers care about this including WCG, seems to show that the volunteers are being taken for granted. Did I mention that I feel taken for granted?

I read through these comments and it appears that with the exception of a few, the opinion is nearly unanimous against your decision. I agree with most of the comments. I really am now just a short way from pulling the plug on WCG because you just destroyed the fun. I may wait a while to see where this goes, but I am pretty sure that after 12 years, my days with WCG are numbered.

Cheers sad
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[May 18, 2019 6:12:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
widdershins
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Scotland
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

In the next upgrade the my contribution page will be improved. Thre will no longer be any information on how many units were completed, time taken or points granted for each project. As a result there will no longer be a requirement to use precious resources displaying badges and displaying statistics.

The new My contributions page will instead feature three progress bars
Currently crunching> Demotivated and annoyed> So long and thanks for all the fish*

It's difficult to tell exactly where you are because the new contribution bars are so imprecise, but I recon I'm about about 65% completed and should reach "So Long and thanks for all the fish"* in about 1-2 months.. skull


* For those not familiar with British Sci-Fi novels it's an obscure HG2G reference
[May 18, 2019 8:35:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
NixChix
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United States
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

In the next upgrade the my contribution page will be improved. Thre will no longer be any information on how many units were completed, time taken or points granted for each project. As a result there will no longer be a requirement to use precious resources displaying badges and displaying statistics.

The new My contributions page will instead feature three progress bars
Currently crunching> Demotivated and annoyed> So long and thanks for all the fish*

It's difficult to tell exactly where you are because the new contribution bars are so imprecise, but I recon I'm about about 65% completed and should reach "So Long and thanks for all the fish"* in about 1-2 months.. skull

+1

You joined 1 day after I did 12 years ago. I can see that you have added extra computing power over time to the cause. Back then it was all "glad you joined us". Now I'm sure we'll get "we don't need you anymore" and "don't let the door hit you as you leave".

Cheers sad
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[May 18, 2019 9:11:53 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
4WhQxmsSdepBpEBjB6rbNUMSgTfK
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The Great State of Texas
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

In the next upgrade the my contribution page will be improved. Thre will no longer be any information on how many units were completed, time taken or points granted for each project. As a result there will no longer be a requirement to use precious resources displaying badges and displaying statistics.

The new My contributions page will instead feature three progress bars
Currently crunching> Demotivated and annoyed> So long and thanks for all the fish*

It's difficult to tell exactly where you are because the new contribution bars are so imprecise, but I recon I'm about about 65% completed and should reach "So Long and thanks for all the fish"* in about 1-2 months.. skull

+1

You joined 1 day after I did 12 years ago. I can see that you have added extra computing power over time to the cause. Back then it was all "glad you joined us". Now I'm sure we'll get "we don't need you anymore" and "don't let the door hit you as you leave".

Cheers sad


On a lighter note can I also echo you NixChic?
I mean the part "you joined 1 day after I did"
3 Amigo's

coffee
cowboy
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[May 18, 2019 9:41:13 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

You have taken out with this, the only think which made me stick here on forum, drawn more power to cluster & get people information. A GAME to get more BADGES.
So WCG is not better 'cause of this. It has become more CHILDISH & DULL, 'cause of this.


+1 !

sad
[May 18, 2019 9:58:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
alged
Master Cruncher
FRANCE
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Re: Change to the Project Progress Bars

+1 QUEL GACHIS !!!

What responsability IBM has at the roots of this move?
Through WCG i had a sense of participating in a global effort!
and running to get badges is a way to gauge our efforts and for me confidence in the moto of my team as yu see below
BUT the question is :Are we still a part of it ! Not only WCG but ..THE RESEARCH ??

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[May 18, 2019 11:04:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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