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wolfman1360
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?


Hi,
This seems like a smart move. I wish I could finance Lenovo here.
I do a bit of gaming on the only computer I have with a graphics card (gtx 670M). I'd like at least a 1060 so I can play most games without fiddling with graphics settings. I'm also visually impaired so I won't be needing something for battlefield or the like. I play mostly fighting games.
Also keep in mind I'm in Canada. Right now I can get this xps 8930 with 12 months financing 0% interest. I don't need a super high end GPU. I'm thinking the 8700 in the xps will be plenty - again, being blind, I don't care about overclocking. This also adds heat and even more complexity. We're already hitting 4.3 GHZ with all cores in use - what real world case do we need to go much further, seriously? Hitting 5 ghz is cool for the numbers and all I guess. It's also, in theory, 4 more days that I get per every real world day for all out crunching over this AMD, which is nice. And probably tripple if not more the points.

Dell used to offer a small form factor Inspiron with a core i7. Unless I'm missing something, it's gone and all they have now are Celleron. I see an inspiron gaming with Ryzen, but I also get a tower that weighs 30+ pounds and is larger than the xps.


Hi. No disrespect but it feels like you replied to a completely different question/thread. I asked you about how much you wanted to spend, wattage, etc. and I got a reply about you living in Canada, financing, and being visually impaired. What do any of those responses have to do with your original questions and/or my replies?

I'll ask again: What is your budget? Have you considered the Lenovo Tiny that is 1/2 the price of the Dell XPS as well as easily 1/4 the size and probably uses 1/3 the power? Your XPS starts at $999 while the Tiny 710 tops out at $630. If the Tiny 710 is not good enough for you (why?) then try the 910 Tiny...or the 910 Mid Tower...or 910 full Tower....or 710 mid/full Towers.

Even financing Dell for 0% for 12 months you still have to pay them via check or credit card unless you get their actual Dell Credit Card which is not worth the time or credit pings to open a card for a 1-time purchase. Most people with existing credit cards in the USA are 8-17% for people with good credit. Most people in the USA can also open a new credit card with 18 month 0% that would easily afford a $500+ purchase.

Please stick the the sticker price and computer itself...do you like the Tiny? If not, what needs to be improved about it to make it work for you? For WCG reasons, all you should be concerned about is how much it costs to get X Results/Points per Day. GHz and overclocking are moot points. Think about the end goal.

You can also choose other Tiny editions at Lenovo or get the Mid Towers or regular Towers. I would suggest the 710 or 910 model desktops.

Eons ago I liked Dell. Nowadays there are never any true sales/deals at Dell, their stuff is years old (I watched the XPS models for years with very minimal changes), and their systems are blah and desktops seem to break right at the 3 year mark (your mileage may vary). Lenovo has a much better build in my experience. If you go to mom and pop shops, you're going to be 1.5x to 2x the price of Dell or Lenovo.


Hi,
Yes, sorry. I forgot what I was actually responding to.
I'm looking at a maximum of around $1,500 (CAD).
I'm on the Canadian lenovo site. I'm looking at more than WCG here - I don't have the money to get a computer for WCG alone and this will be a desktop that I use on a daily basis, so it won't be crunching constantly.
Wattage isn't a concern as the power is included in rent at a fixed price.
I'm looking at something with a reasonable GPU as well as future expandability (USB c etc).
I can't find any warranty options with Lenovo Canada either. 1 year is all that I can find.
Am I missing something here? The warranty is going to make it or break it.
The sticker price? Aka no configuration? The 910 tower comes in at over $700 with the i5 base.
Again sorry for the confusion.

Why do you think Dell's stuff is years old? Are you talking aesthetics? Hardware?
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Crunching for the betterment of human kind and the canines who will always be our best friends.
AWOU!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wolfman1360 at Oct 31, 2017 3:09:51 AM]
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ericinboston
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

Hi. Well, when I purchased my Tower a few weeks ago I had numerous options for 1-3 years of warranty (maybe even 5 years)...don't forget that almost all credit cards (in the USA) provide an extra 1 year of warranty (that matches the manufacturer's) for free. So be sure to check with your credit card company.

The reason I suggested the Tiny (to others besides you too) is that it is super small. You can buy either 710 or 910 in 3 flavors: Tiny, Small Form Factor, or Tower. I forget the difference between the 710 and 910 but likely it is overall expandability on the motherboard itself. Both models have tons of USB 3.0, offer a few different video cards, numerous Intel chips, numerous drive types and styles (traditional, SSD, and M.2).

I've been using integrated graphics cards for over a decade. I easily push 1080 resolution and many have more than a VGA output. But I also do not play games. Video cards (IMO) has been the last piece of computer hardware that has a myriad of choices and every year there are new advances. It's amazing. But I cannot keep up with it. If I really needed a non-integrated card, I wouldn't spend more than $100 as an add-on unless I'm a)doing serious gaming or b)know video cards inside and out and am looking for a particular technology spec. I wanted to buy a video card with this Tower so I could use it for crunching, but alas, I couldn't find any info on which video cards Lenovo offered working with WCG.

$1500 CAN is about $1900 USA. That's a ton of money to spend on a PC these days, not to mention a general-use PC. My Lenovo M910T Tower I bought a few weeks ago was $945 after taxes and is:

● Intel Core i7-7700 Processor ( 8M Cache , 3.6GHz )
● Windows 10 Home 64
● Tower 85% Power 250W
● 16GB DDR4 2400 UDIMM
● Integrated Graphic Card
● 512GB SolidState Drive M.2 NVMe
● Slim DVD Burner / CD-RW, SATA
● Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet

Google the tech specs if you want deeper specs (it's a 1 page PDF but this forum will not allow me to paste the URL here oddly) but tons of SATA3 connections, M.2, plenty of options at checkout for video cards (or buy them later and plop them in yourself). Although I still use the VGA adapter, it has a few HDMI outputs.

This Tower is my desktop that I use for our home general use as well as music remixing and of course crunching. It's pretty quiet when crunching at 100% with the fans going and almost silent when the fan is not going.

Again, my Tower is almost 1/2 your price. If you're getting caught up with the warranty or other non-technical issue, I would pick up the phone and call Lenovo or use their Chat window. My order from them came directly from China so I can't imagine they would have a problem shipping to Canada.

I think at most you would have to spend $1100 USA for a general-use system that has a nice video card for gaming. Wait a few weeks for Black Friday or Cyber Monday and I bet you will save another $50-$150 USA.

Lastly, you seem to imply that you do not have a credit card. I would strongly discourage you opening up a Dell Credit Card and spend 2x the money just because you get 0% financing with Dell. You're far better off opening a normal Visa/Mastercard and getting 0-5% financing and buying WHAT YOU WANT. Regardless of you opening a Dell card or a regular credit card, the credit process is exactly the same.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by ericinboston at Oct 31, 2017 11:53:19 AM]
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wolfman1360
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

Hi. Well, when I purchased my Tower a few weeks ago I had numerous options for 1-3 years of warranty (maybe even 5 years)...don't forget that almost all credit cards (in the USA) provide an extra 1 year of warranty (that matches the manufacturer's) for free. So be sure to check with your credit card company.

The reason I suggested the Tiny (to others besides you too) is that it is super small. You can buy either 710 or 910 in 3 flavors: Tiny, Small Form Factor, or Tower. I forget the difference between the 710 and 910 but likely it is overall expandability on the motherboard itself. Both models have tons of USB 3.0, offer a few different video cards, numerous Intel chips, numerous drive types and styles (traditional, SSD, and M.2).

I've been using integrated graphics cards for over a decade. I easily push 1080 resolution and many have more than a VGA output. But I also do not play games. Video cards (IMO) has been the last piece of computer hardware that has a myriad of choices and every year there are new advances. It's amazing. But I cannot keep up with it. If I really needed a non-integrated card, I wouldn't spend more than $100 as an add-on unless I'm a)doing serious gaming or b)know video cards inside and out and am looking for a particular technology spec. I wanted to buy a video card with this Tower so I could use it for crunching, but alas, I couldn't find any info on which video cards Lenovo offered working with WCG.

$1500 CAN is about $1900 USA. That's a ton of money to spend on a PC these days, not to mention a general-use PC. My Lenovo M910T Tower I bought a few weeks ago was $945 after taxes and is:

● Intel Core i7-7700 Processor ( 8M Cache , 3.6GHz )
● Windows 10 Home 64
● Tower 85% Power 250W
● 16GB DDR4 2400 UDIMM
● Integrated Graphic Card
● 512GB SolidState Drive M.2 NVMe
● Slim DVD Burner / CD-RW, SATA
● Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet

Google the tech specs if you want deeper specs (it's a 1 page PDF but this forum will not allow me to paste the URL here oddly) but tons of SATA3 connections, M.2, plenty of options at checkout for video cards (or buy them later and plop them in yourself). Although I still use the VGA adapter, it has a few HDMI outputs.

This Tower is my desktop that I use for our home general use as well as music remixing and of course crunching. It's pretty quiet when crunching at 100% with the fans going and almost silent when the fan is not going.

Again, my Tower is almost 1/2 your price. If you're getting caught up with the warranty or other non-technical issue, I would pick up the phone and call Lenovo or use their Chat window. My order from them came directly from China so I can't imagine they would have a problem shipping to Canada.

I think at most you would have to spend $1100 USA for a general-use system that has a nice video card for gaming. Wait a few weeks for Black Friday or Cyber Monday and I bet you will save another $50-$150 USA.

Lastly, you seem to imply that you do not have a credit card. I would strongly discourage you opening up a Dell Credit Card and spend 2x the money just because you get 0% financing with Dell. You're far better off opening a normal Visa/Mastercard and getting 0-5% financing and buying WHAT YOU WANT. Regardless of you opening a Dell card or a regular credit card, the credit process is exactly the same.


Just went and looked.
Similarly equipped here in Canada, your system comes to right around $1,505. this is with a $183 initial savings.
Is this the correct tower? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to be.
https://www3.lenovo.com/ca/en/desktops-and-al...0MMCTO1WWENCA0/customize#

Remember the exchange rate is about 30 to 35% - though that is getting better now, though companies take forever to change and they like to use that to their advantage, stretching it far.
This is before warranty is even accounted for, too.
The 910 tiny seems to come with t series processors, I think they have a TDP of 35 or 45w?



I have a dell financial account - I suppose it's similar to a credit card, which I also own. Said credit card is not 0% financing, at all - it's around 9.99 and I get no extra warranty with it. We do have those in Canada, though, but not all or even most I don't think.
----------------------------------------
Crunching for the betterment of human kind and the canines who will always be our best friends.
AWOU!
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KWSN Sir Clark
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

I treated myself to a new Cruncher recently.

Got the i7-8700K day after release. Been crunching magnificently since. Gaining badges faster than ever with 12 threads running full time.

Good cooler is a key and mine tops out at 60C under load.

It's base speed is 3.7GHz but with BOINC running it's at 4.3GHz!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by KWSN Sir Clark at Nov 9, 2017 2:26:45 PM]
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wolfman1360
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

I treated myself to a new Cruncher recently.

Got the i7-8700K day after release. Been crunching magnificently since. Gaining badges faster than ever with 12 threads running full time.

Good cooler is a key and mine tops out at 60C under load.

It's base speed is 3.7GHz but with BOINC running it's at 4.3GHz!


I'm probably going with the 8700. From what I'm told and reading, 100 MHZ difference in clock speeds, if even that and I have 0 interest in overclocking at all.
As also mentioned, still have my eye on the xps 8930 unless something better catches my fancy. At this point, though, anything will be better than my aging fx8350, which has served me well. Ryzen is also an option, too.
----------------------------------------
Crunching for the betterment of human kind and the canines who will always be our best friends.
AWOU!
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Jim1348
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

At this point, though, anything will be better than my aging fx8350, which has served me well. Ryzen is also an option, too.

I am glad you asked. I just finished a Ryzen 1700 build last week, running Ubuntu 17.10 (non-overclocked). This is a dedicated machine for BOINC work, and runs 24/7.

It has just finished its first group of MCM running on 15 cores, with another core supporting a GTX 970 on Einstein. The times are averaging 3 hours 43 minutes, with not much variation. And with the GPU disabled, it pulls 129 watts from the AC power. (Since it has a gold-rated 90% efficient power supply, that means 116 watts to the motherboard, which is an ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X).

It would be interesting to compare that to Coffee Lake, if the numbers are available. I compare it to my other WCG rig, which is an i7-3770 running Ubuntu 16.04. With MCM on 7 cores, and the other core supporting a GTX 980, the times are 3 hours 55 minutes per work unit. It draws 97 watts from the AC line.

Since the Ryzen has 15/7 times as many work units running at a time, that makes its output about 2.26 times as much as the i7-3770, or considering the power, about 1.7 times as efficient.
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

Ryzen -
The times are averaging 3 hours 43 minutes, with not much variation.
I compare it to my other WCG rig, which is an i7-3770 running Ubuntu 16.04. With MCM on 7 cores, and the other core supporting a GTX 980, the times are 3 hours 55 minutes per work unit

I think the use of MCM to compare the performance of the two machines is pretty good because of the great stability in the run times of the units. Both machines are averaging just under the the average length of a work unit by WCG users as a a whole (4.1 to 4.2 hours). Very interesting. Thanks for the info.
Cheers
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Jim1348
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

You are welcome, considering your many contributions. Performance information is of limited value unless it is shared.
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wolfman1360
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

At this point, though, anything will be better than my aging fx8350, which has served me well. Ryzen is also an option, too.

I am glad you asked. I just finished a Ryzen 1700 build last week, running Ubuntu 17.10 (non-overclocked). This is a dedicated machine for BOINC work, and runs 24/7.

It has just finished its first group of MCM running on 15 cores, with another core supporting a GTX 970 on Einstein. The times are averaging 3 hours 43 minutes, with not much variation. And with the GPU disabled, it pulls 129 watts from the AC power. (Since it has a gold-rated 90% efficient power supply, that means 116 watts to the motherboard, which is an ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X).

It would be interesting to compare that to Coffee Lake, if the numbers are available. I compare it to my other WCG rig, which is an i7-3770 running Ubuntu 16.04. With MCM on 7 cores, and the other core supporting a GTX 980, the times are 3 hours 55 minutes per work unit. It draws 97 watts from the AC line.

Since the Ryzen has 15/7 times as many work units running at a time, that makes its output about 2.26 times as much as the i7-3770, or considering the power, about 1.7 times as efficient.


Thank you so much for this information. It's very much appreciated.
I would assume that Intel coffee lake would perform close to the same, though only 12 threads vs 16.
Is MCM one of the projects that performs better under Linux? I'll be using windows.
----------------------------------------
Crunching for the betterment of human kind and the canines who will always be our best friends.
AWOU!
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Jim1348
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Re: Intel Coffee Lake crunching results and experience?

Is MCM one of the projects that performs better under Linux? I'll be using windows.

The last time I checked on my Win7 64-bit machine, MCM did pretty well. It does not have the large reduction under Windows that the VINA work units do. I would not mind crunching it on Windows at all, and in fact often use it as a backup there.

EDIT: I think MCM and MIP are the most "Windows friendly", with only about a 10 to 15 percent difference than Linux as I recall. The others I reserve for my Linux machines, but there is some difference between them. Maybe SCC and even TB do well under Windows, but I don't recall as I have not gotten that many to compare. I am sure other people here can help.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Jim1348 at Nov 15, 2017 7:34:34 AM]
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