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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 52
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I am nothing short of amazed at this discussion. You are supposed to use solar panels to generate electricity, not eat them. And if you want "clean" energy; i.e., without greenhouse gases, then you will do what you need to do. I include nuclear and anything else. If our current civilization is to survive in an advanced form, it will need to think up something quickly. I think the "greenies" are as much a danger to our species as the climate change deniers at this rate.
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svincent
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jan 3, 2009 Post Count: 53 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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@Jim1348: I agree that nuclear is probably the best near-term option for baseline power (least bad might be a better way of putting it). Fukushima was a disaster in more ways than one as the public perception of dangers from radiation caused the cancellation of many planned nuclear fission plants worldwide.
But I think concerns about toxicity are perfectly legitimate: one intended application niche for organic photovoltaics is as a cheap thin film that can be applied almost everywhere to such things as roofs, curtains, laptop screens, windows, etc. even clothes. If this material is going to be ubiquitous, and especially if people are wearing it, it's preferable that it be non-toxic. @KLIK: your concerns about bromine are exaggerated. Bromides used to be used as sedatives and more recently bromine has been found to be essential for animal life (as a cofactor for an enzyme that cross-links collagen). No doubt it's possible to create a toxic chemical that contains bromine but the same could be said for any element. Think cyanide (carbon + nitrogen). |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I am nothing short of amazed at this discussion. You are supposed to use solar panels to generate electricity, not eat them. And if you want "clean" energy; i.e., without greenhouse gases, then you will do what you need to do. I include nuclear and anything else. If our current civilization is to survive in an advanced form, it will need to think up something quickly. I think the "greenies" are as much a danger to our species as the climate change deniers at this rate. I'm surprised at your remark...'cause I don't think that people eat "asbestos rooftops, still they are banned in USA & in most of the western world"! & when you wanna read more about "clean & green energy", please start with "total life-time of the product"...& check what it all means, especially in waste disposal of the solar cell after end of life-time! ![]() also, note that nuclear is viable till y2050...so not much more power left there! check the number of fuel rods... ![]() ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by KLiK at Mar 8, 2016 10:40:06 AM] |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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& when you wanna read more about "clean & green energy", please start with "total life-time of the product"...& check what it all means, especially in waste disposal of the solar cell after end of life-time! ![]() also, note that nuclear is viable till y2050...so not much more power left there! check the number of fuel rods... ![]() It is the life cycle of the planet (or the human habitable portion) that is at stake. The definition of "clean & green" by some advocacy group is not. Year 2050 may be enough for other forms of nuclear and non-nuclear energy to be developed, but if not, breeder reactors can extend that for quite a bit more time. And they usually base their estimates on the amount of uranium that is a known reserve, but since the price has been reduced because of low demand due to the slow pace of building reactors, they don't search for it as much. It is the same thing with oil or any other resource. |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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& when you wanna read more about "clean & green energy", please start with "total life-time of the product"...& check what it all means, especially in waste disposal of the solar cell after end of life-time! ![]() also, note that nuclear is viable till y2050...so not much more power left there! check the number of fuel rods... ![]() It is the life cycle of the planet (or the human habitable portion) that is at stake. The definition of "clean & green" by some advocacy group is not. Year 2050 may be enough for other forms of nuclear and non-nuclear energy to be developed, but if not, breeder reactors can extend that for quite a bit more time. And they usually base their estimates on the amount of uranium that is a known reserve, but since the price has been reduced because of low demand due to the slow pace of building reactors, they don't search for it as much. It is the same thing with oil or any other resource. well, don't know how familiar are you with nuclear power...but y2050 is given as a END DATE with all nuclear fuel burned, including those replenished by a breeders & including ALL nuclear weapons dismantled for use in power plants! also, note that we are not anywhere near fusion, as we were 5y ago...so it might take us longer than y2050 to achieve nuclear fusion for powering our planet...which is in constant demand for more energy! so, when someone say that water-dam are ecological & friendly - ask them about methane release from a submerged plants... when someone tell you solar power is ecological - ask them about heavy metals in solar panels... only known FREE & ecological energy is "geothermal energy", by a series of heat-pumps...but we simply can't be sure what will happen if we start pumping out heat from an earth crust...or what might be some consequences... ![]() |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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well, don't know how familiar are you with nuclear power...but y2050 is given as a END DATE with all nuclear fuel burned, including those replenished by a breeders & including ALL nuclear weapons dismantled for use in power plants! Certainly not; at least by any species wishing to stay on this planet. http://news.yahoo.com/earth-saw-explosive-annual-growth-164330040.html If the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA) has accurately estimated the planet's economically accessible uranium resources, reactors could run more than 200 years at current rates of consumption. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how...al-uranium-deposits-last/ But of course if you really believed your estimates, you wouldn't need to argue against nuclear at all; it would just run out. [Edit 2 times, last edit by Jim1348 at Mar 10, 2016 7:28:02 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Unfortunately geothermal isn't all that clean... from wikipedia "Fluids drawn from the deep earth carry a mixture of gases, notably carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), methane (CH4) and ammonia (NH3). These pollutants contribute to global warming, acid rain, and noxious smells if released. In addition to dissolved gases, hot water from geothermal sources may hold in solution trace amounts of toxic elements such as mercury, arsenic, boron, and antimony."
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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well, don't know how familiar are you with nuclear power...but y2050 is given as a END DATE with all nuclear fuel burned, including those replenished by a breeders & including ALL nuclear weapons dismantled for use in power plants! Certainly not; at least by any species wishing to stay on this planet. http://news.yahoo.com/earth-saw-explosive-annual-growth-164330040.html If the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA) has accurately estimated the planet's economically accessible uranium resources, reactors could run more than 200 years at current rates of consumption. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how...al-uranium-deposits-last/ But of course if you really believed your estimates, you wouldn't need to argue against nuclear at all; it would just run out. 1st of all, I'm not against nuclear at all...just that it needs to be more closely regulated, 'cause only after Chernobyl & Fukushima did we act upon raising our security measures! also, your article (although it's correct), doesn't account that we'll have a raise of 20% needed energy in between 2010-2030: http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-libr...y-and-climate-change.aspx What will happen after than, we just can't know for sure...but those are the prognosis, base upon a 2% increase every year in demand of electric power - which is a measurable dimension, so it's a FACT...so those 230y is less, 'cause it's based on "current demand"! 2nd, it also assumes that we'll find another 10,5 trillion ton of Un - which is "ridiculous"...we were talking about "what we currently have, as a human kind"...not that we might import it from Uranus moon! 3rd, it also assumes that we'll get technology to get Un from seawater, "without any cost analysis" - which is totally absurd...nobody's not going to think of that machine, until it's financially viable to be profitable! 4th, nuclear power is raising temp. of our planet...in my case, a river Sava is raised by 0,5-1°C then before NP Krško was put...on those figures also come a higher temp. from a heat during the longer summer-times & raised temp....so saying that nuclear is going to save us - is totally absurd! yes, it does have more energy in a bar than in a whole truck load of coal... yes, it doesn't pollute a planet in a visible particles... but it also carries some other things we need to think of! temp. of planet is raising, so anyone advocating about "stop raise by building more nuclear plants" it totally ignorant to the question, instrument of someone (or some company) or a nuclear company spokesman itself! btw, we're her to talk about "heavy metals in solar cells"...so stop kidnapping topic & star talking about solar cells...'cause if you do continue to talk about nuclear again, then I must conclude that you're one of those who pushes nuclear power instead of dirty coal/oil/gas power plants & want to undermine solar cells! ![]() Unfortunately geothermal isn't all that clean... from wikipedia "Fluids drawn from the deep earth carry a mixture of gases, notably carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), methane (CH4) and ammonia (NH3). These pollutants contribute to global warming, acid rain, and noxious smells if released. In addition to dissolved gases, hot water from geothermal sources may hold in solution trace amounts of toxic elements such as mercury, arsenic, boron, and antimony." Arthur, I was thinking about a "closed loop system". ![]() ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by KLiK at Mar 11, 2016 2:40:45 PM] |
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Yarensc
Advanced Cruncher USA Joined: Sep 24, 2011 Post Count: 136 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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There are also next generation reactors that use Thorium instead of Uranium, which is currently a waste product of platinum mining, and much more plentiful than Uranium
http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-libr...e-generation/thorium.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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There are also next generation reactors that use Thorium instead of Uranium, which is currently a waste product of platinum mining, and much more plentiful than Uranium http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-libr...e-generation/thorium.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor some of us know about Thorium & it's implications...some say it will power first spacecrafts/spaceprobes...some even say it will power cars of the future?! nuclear cars - back to the '60... but, this topic is about solar cells...a green energy, bio-degradable, non-toxic solar cells...& still no scientist have come here to say "anything" about why they test "normal heavy metals" for use in solar cells?! ![]() |
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