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Byteball_730a2960
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What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

I've been looking at the building a cruncher based on a E5-2680V3 ES chip.
I have one of the CPUs and I can get a second one reasonably easily.....

Then I looked at cpubenchmark.net and the single chip got a rating of 19486...
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel...3+%40+2.50GHz&id=2390

But the dual Cpu setup has a rating of 27,660
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel...mp;id=2390&cpuCount=2

Which is only a 42% increase in crunching. Is this not to be trusted?
If so, what would I expect to get?



If the figures are to be trusted, then I feel going for 2 single cpu setups would be way better. One computer will be dual boot windows and linux, one would be linux only. I think this would be better for the following reasons.

Motherboard = Same cost. 2 x consumer single cpu boards is about the same as the cheapest supermicro dual cpu. Disadvantage is the there will probably more power draw with 2 boards.
Memory, OS costs, CPU cooler, CPU cost are the same
Need to get an extra PSU, Case, Harddrive.
Cables, keyboard, mouse etc will be a small extra outlay.

So the way I look at it, for an extra outlay of less than $200, a bit more space taken up under my desk and a slight increase in running costs, I get a much throughput.

Am I wrong with this?
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Bearcat
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

Look at the # cores they list. I would say they used the same motherboard and disabled one processor to run the test. Not a fair test. They did not mention what motherboard they used either. Dual processor motherboards are not created equal so you need to do your reseach on what to use. The chip sets and such make a difference. I run a dually as its easier to maintain instead of 2 separate systems. Cheaper too for parts. But if it goes down, you lose your big cruncher. Rarely has my dually gone down though. Its cool seeing 24 threads working as I have a dual hex system. Can't afford the newer 12 core/24 threaded chips or even the 18/36 monster. Have to win the lottery first.
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Byteball_730a2960
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

Looking deeper at the last 5 tests that were run, it would seem that one person ran 3 of the tests for both the single CPU and dual CPU and they got a 52% increase.

The more and more I look into this, is seems that running a dual cpu crunching rig is a lot of work to get right.

I am getting a little disillusioned with trying to do a dual cpu setup. I can spare the money if the returns are worth it. Maybe I would be better off holding onto my cash for a while and investing in a second cruncher when a real bargain comes along.
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KLiK
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

dual CPU = dual WUs crunching = dual time

I have several dual CPUs MBOs & several MBOs with dual or quad cores...it all comes down to TIME!

and no I don't suggest you run one WU on dual CPU! ;)
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OldChap
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

My take on this is that they use less power primarily. I have a single 8 core SB running that uses 180w and a duallie that uses around 250w

No overclocking on xeons (worth a damn) and build quality that befits a board that has to work 24/7 in a server environment results in super reliability.

The best I ever got running a 2600K clocked to 4.7 was 9000 boinc per day on just one Vina project. It used around 230w to do this.

My slowest duallie runs at 2.4 inc turbo and usually gets 14K ppd across all projects or 18Kppd on just Vina. It runs Linux.

running 16 cores 32 threads makes a world of difference to your runtime too.

Generally you could build a bunch of 4c/8t machines for the price of a good duallie but the major flaw in that is running cost.

The oddball build in this scenario might be when using c2750 boards. such a setup built in a similar fashion to those bitcoin setups you could run at least 10 per PSU as they are reported to use between 30 and 40 watts all up each.

each board could be expected to do 2500 Boinc ppd or 3500ppd on Vina
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KLiK
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

the CPUs aren't so much expendables in a config...HDD are!

so to lower the consumption of computer:
1. use SSD or USB OS
2. use lower RAM ('cause more allocated RAM consumes more W at PSU) - but not too low
3. don't use extra PCI slots

Consider using laptops...they can be throttled to 50-80% of CPU time, soime even on 100%...and from my experiance 80+% is only for: Lenovo, Dell & Toshiba laptops...
They consume about 100-150W alltogether...that much lower than PC desktop! Even with normal 2,5" HDD...

Everyone can make several of these...just for crunching!
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Byteball_730a2960
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

Thanks guys,

Oldchap - Interesting about the lower running cost/cpu on a dually. And nice to see some figures on that too. I looked at the machines you are running via boincstats and it would seem that the dually running linux is getting 225% of the single running windows which is very encouraging to see as the cpu benchmark put me off.

I am planning on using this as my main computer at home, so here is what I am thinking.

MB - Supermicro X10Dai
CPU - 2 x Xeon 2680V3 ES (I still have to find out if the stepping etc will be the same on the chips as it seems to be important.)
Mem - 4 * 8GB DDR4-2133 REG ECC
CPU cooler - Probably water cooling with a 140mm radiator per CPU
PSU - Recycle my 600W bronze PSU. May upgrade to gold in the future
SSD - I have a 30Gb SSD lying around that I'll use for pure WCG use.
GPU - Not decided yet, but it'll be a small one as I don't game.
Case - Not decided yet, but I'll make sure to get an EATX case

OS - I'll be running windows 7. Thinking of later doing a linux dual boot as the computer is typically untouched for 16 hours stretches during the week.

What do you think of this build? It'll be running 24/7.
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

@vcd683s

I recently asked myself these very same questions. I think it is better to build two single processor computers than one dual - if you’re buying new stuff. You get more throughput per Euro, purchase price and energy cost. However, if you’re buying used, already assembled stuff - like a workstation - then it’s often cheaper to buy dual. Even if you take into account how much throughput there is and the energy cost for the systems. I paid 40% more for a used dual Z600 workstation, compared to a used single processor Z400 with the same configuration, but with one processor instead of two. I think I’m getting maybe 60-80% more throughput compared to a single CPU system, but I paid only 40% more.

A dual system, regardless if it’s new or used, is good because it’s easier to manage compared to two single processor systems. I’m tired of all the reboots after the monthly updates. Having a dual system means one less. Having two dual systems means two less, which means a lot when running CEP2. These WUs lose most of the work in progress when restarting the computer, so I have to do planed shutdowns where I fill up with UGM WUs.

The downside is the bottleneck in the dual system's platform controller hub and the single HDD’s bandwidth, which is probably why, among other things, I’m sure, a dual system has less throughput per processor compared to two single CPU systems.

I think you should fill all memory channels with DIMMs, even if they draw an extra 2W per DIMM. For science.


@ Oldchap

I've also seen your BOINCstats. Have you upgraded all your dual boards with 12-core processors? I've searched on eBay for processors that have more than 6 cores, but they are scarce and expensive. Do you know where, if anywhere, it's possible to buy used "many many"-core processors (more than deca)? Are there any used dodeca-cores for sale?


"The oddball build in this scenario might be when using c2750 boards. such a setup built in a similar fashion to those bitcoin setups you could run at least 10 per PSU as they are reported to use between 30 and 40 watts all up each."

Do you know how to connect 10 boards to just one PSU? I read somewhere that each board needs to be able to individually regulate the PSU's power, and that would prevent a parallel connection.
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OldChap
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

Boincstats tells lies..... It says I have 12 core processors because I have been experimenting with how many instances to run at any one time to see if it influences the number of OET WU's I get. I have altered the <ncpus> parameter in cc.config.

vcd

It would be wrong to think that linux performs THAT much netter than windows , That rig currently does other things too which detracts from the score.

The critical stepping point I made before relates to pre production cpu's. It may not matter with retail units.... try asking around.

Even an EATX case may need a little modding of the mounting points in line with SSI CEB. Be aware that not all case manufacturers consider EATX to be 12" x 13"

EDIT: I think since re-reading your post above ....

Those cpu's are likely the best cost performance ratio.

Watercooling is overkill (I know because I have one rig like that)

There have been some great offers this year on top of the line PSU's like Seasonic and EVGA G's and P's. A Quality psu gives you peace of mind.

You will need a bigger ssd especially if running CEP. Windows uses nearly 20GB these days although why when Linux is so much smaller I could not say

It might be worth exploring running linux with windows in a virtual machine... depends on what you use windows for.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by OldChap at Dec 28, 2014 1:47:37 PM]
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Byteball_730a2960
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Re: What is the advantage of a dual cpu cruncher vs 2 single cpu crunchers?

@TBMS
Unfortunately, I live in a country where the power costs are pretty high. Around the 30c/KWh! So my power costs are pretty substantial. I worked out the plan over 3 years and getting these chips for the price they were, means that they dominate the 3 year total cost of ownership.....

There are very very few second hand LGA2011-3 boards out there for me to pick up. I found 2 in total! As for workstations, none at all. If only I lived in the US where I could have picked these things up more easily!

I'm hoping that by going for a supermicro dual board, I won't hit too much of a bottle neck. I'll find out when I build it! Assuming I get that second chip though!

@OldChap
The board I am looking at is actually E-ATX, not SSI CEB or SSI EEB. So it should fit in my case nicely.

I have been looking at aircooling and I really like the look of the Scythe Mugen 4 coolers. I've been very impressed by that (and Noctua's) peformance as it is usually better than watercooling, but I don't want to hang 1.5-2kg of cooler from my motherboard. I am not comfortable with that much weight. With watercooling, atleast the radiators are supported by the case. Or am I worrying too much?

As for the PSU, I think you are right. Over 3 years, replacing my bronze with a gold will pay for itself in saved costs and probably give me cleaner and better power. Platinum was worth the return in my opinion.

This is a 30GB ssd which is just for WCG. So I will have my OS and programs on another 240GB ssd, so hopefully no issues there. Running UGM, I would use 14GB of space I think if I have the same setting as my 6 core machine.
Once I set it up, what is the best way of checking if the SSD is my bottleneck?

Thanks a ton for all of your input guys. I really appreciate it and it is so helpful during this learning process!
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