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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: BOINC Agent Support
Thread: Counter Cheating systems and the points system: thoughts. |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 11
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OldChap
Veteran Cruncher UK Joined: Jun 5, 2009 Post Count: 978 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I got to wondering what options there might be to overhaul the points system so that it once more becomes a useful tool to compare rigs and relative efficiency across each of the projects.
----------------------------------------My first idea would be to irregularly run a single wu of known size and difficulty on each rig each day. Re-naming such a wu so that it is indistinguishable by the user in any given batch of work then using the result of said wu to determine a score for any given rig, this score having an effect on the way that points are claimed by said rig. Over to you folks.... How would you approach this?  |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
What do you mean by "Cheating Systems"?
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
This is what is used http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/CreditNew . Pick holes and be quick. Maybe some real insight develops that the technicians can take with them to the boinc szytaki conference held at end of month somewhere in europe.
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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the boinc szytaki conference held at end of month somewhere in europe. Budapest, Hungary. 10th BOINC Workshop |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
A memory refresher, for the techs in particular: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewpostinthread?post=417383
----------------------------------------There's another post, a year or more before this one by knreed, not found back, that discusses wcg outlier rules [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Sep 25, 2014 6:28:57 AM] |
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OldChap
Veteran Cruncher UK Joined: Jun 5, 2009 Post Count: 978 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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On our forum a comment was made which is perhaps pertinent to the continuing saga of the points system. I may be summarised as:
----------------------------------------After all this time with no action to resolve this one wonders how many volunteers, or potential volunteers have fallen by the wayside having seen points as an unworkable metric and whether this also was a factor in the history of Ripple Labs. Included in the group of people who give freely of their time and energy in the name of science are a core of folks, perhaps even a large percentage of folks, for whom a working and fair points system is not just a useful metric but a requirement that shows the integrity of the whole project. Start over. Get this right and they will come |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
OC,
The WCG techs are trying their utmost but it appears that the WCG point system is so convoluted that it cannot be salvaged. They could not fix the WCG point system for Ripple Labs so I doubt very much that a fix will happen in the near future. Look to me like they need to discard the whole WCG system and start from scratch. This is likely a lot of time and money that they do not have at present or do not deem a priority. This is most unfortunate since they are knowingly loosing at least half of their potentiel crunching support by not correcting their unreliable scoring system. The big picture dictates that a reliable point and runtime system is a must for WCG. Ripple Labs used to produce over 50 million pts/day for humanitarian research before WCG runtime / pointage allocation discrepancies forced them to abadon their coinage distribution. They are now providing a little over 3 million pts/day. The loss of such a great daily research amount is slowing humanitarian research to what I consider a most undesirable production level considering WCG potential capacity. The latest changes to the WCG website and its applications have done much to enhance its attraactiveness and ease of use. The same revampt most be done ASAP with the WCG credit system. |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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jeanguy2
----------------------------------------I'm no fan of the Points system which as I regard as broken, possibly irretrievably so, but your post rmakes several points which I believe are wrong. They could not fix the WCG point system for Ripple Labs The problem Ripple Labs had with the Point system was of their ow making! Using screen scraping to source their Points information for XRP allocation when WCG had already announced that changes to the website were pending which would make screen scraping invalid. Had Ripple Labs implemented a system based on the API from day one, the problem would not have arisen. I would suggest that anything from Ripple Labs suggesting that there were problems with the WCG points system is a disingenuous attempt to obscure the reasons for the abrupt termination of the XRP giveaway. This is most unfortunate since they are knowingly loosing at least half of their potentiel crunching support by not correcting their unreliable scoring system. This is pure supposition. In the 2013 Member Study which has informed all the recent development work, the Points System did not rate a mention. The loss of much of Ripple Labs substantial crunching power, down from ~ 207 RT years per day to ~21 RT yrs pd in August, in indeed regretable but surely the reason is the loss of financial recompense in the form of XRPs rather than problems with the Points System? Afterall WCG members are still returning ~400 RT yrs pd with no financial incentive. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by jonnieb-uk at Sep 23, 2014 11:04:25 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello jonnied-uk, Your comments are appreciated. Many factors contributed to Ripple Labs being forced to end the ripple/XRP giveaway to members of its WCG team last April. Many of these factors are accurately described in this excellent WCG forum thread "Computing for Good being phased out" which you partook into: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,36557_offset,0 Furthermore web articles, such as these two, show Ripple Labs as a troubled company suffering from less than ideal leadership and much legal infighting. See: "Jesse Powell's Fiery Response..." https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/jesse-powells...-ripple-labs-accusations/ and "Co-Founder Plans 9 Billion XRP Selloff..." http://www.coindesk.com/price-ripple-xrp-plummets-co-founde-9-billion-selloff/ I view Ripple Labs weak leadership and their lack of thorough pre-planning as the major contributing factor to them having to prematurely end their Computing for Good XRP giveaway a mere six months after its inception. I also think that discrepancies in the WCG point system were a contributing factor / catalyst to this early demise. You state that: I'm no fan of the Points system which as I regard as broken, possibly irretrievably so, but your post makes several points which I believe are wrong. Ripple Labs gave away a certain amount of XRP per day, distributed among the members of the Ripple Labs WCG team in proportion to their share of the team's total points that day. If what you quoted above is true then how can you say that my quote below is wrong? They could not fix the WCG point system for Ripple Labs Your next point is: Jean-Guy - This is most unfortunate since they are knowingly loosing at least half of their potential crunching support by not correcting their unreliable scoring system. You say: This is pure supposition. In the 2013 Member Study which has informed all the recent development work, the Points System did not rate a mention. The loss of much of Ripple Labs substantial crunching power, down from ~ 207 RT years per day to ~21 RT yrs pd in August, in indeed regretable but surely the reason is the loss of financial recompense in the form of XRPs rather than problems with the Points System? Afterall WCG members are still returning ~400 RT yrs pd with no financial incentive. I stand corrected, according to the figures you provided above the crucial overall loss in crucial crunching power is 30% and not 50%. This is a lesser but still substantial reduction that will require 3 years of crunching for what could have been done in two. It saddens me very much that the Ripple Labs Computing for Goods XRP giveaway ended so abruptly but it certainly was not precipitated by WCG. I did not emphasize the need for an accurate and timely WCG point system in my 2013 WCG survey. My input today would be significantly different since I now fully realize that I am a Team player who likes badges and wants his Team to be #1. I also want to operate my rigs as efficiently as possible while minimizing wear and electricity cost. This can not be accurately done without being provided with accurate & timely credits and stats from WCG.  |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7848 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I also want to operate my rigs as efficiently as possible while minimizing wear and electricity cost. This can not be accurately done without being provided with accurate & timely credits and stats from WCG. I agree to the extent that an accurate point system provides a nice tool to compare and tweak systems for maximum throughput. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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