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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 19
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starhuggrrr
Cruncher Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline |
Hi Rob, I think you also replied to me when I posted about this on the BOINC boards a few months ago. :-) Thanks for the added info. I'll watch for the Vina 7.03 tasks now if I have problems again. I aborted them all that had been downloaded. All I have now (of the FAAH) are Autodock 7.15 and Vina 7.06. Unfortunately I don't have the time to spare to troubleshoot by selectively aborting some tasks to see if the problem clears, but if it happens again I'll watch to see if it's a 7.03 again. Thanks for your help! :-)
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NixChix
Veteran Cruncher United States Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Post Count: 1187 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi NixChix. Thanks for your reply. If you're right, it sure wouldn't be the first time Vista was the cause of problems. I have found with some other programs that memory often doesn't recycle well (being released and then reused; instead the amount of memory creeps up until I have to reload the whole program). However, if this is a Vista problem then would this not be reported by other Vista users over the years and therefore a well known issue? Have you heard of Vista being the source of memory-related problems for BOINC? That phenomenon is called a "memory leak" and is caused by applications that use memory dynamically and do not release memory structures back to the OS and instead just drop the reference. The app "forgets' that it has the memory, but is still allocated by the OS. One project that I was charged with testing (aka "try to break") was a new rail transit control system that ran 24x7 and had similar issues that would cause problems after running for a few days and all available memory was consumed as far as the Unix OS was concerned. The contractor had to get special software that would help them find the "memory leaks" so that they could fix the code to released the data structures correctly. It was not easy because there was more than one leak.You are right, it is probably not a Vista problem as it would show up with other long-running executables unless this app is using some seldom used Vista API. I have even found problems with compilers too. Unless you are fortunte enough to be a third-generation replacement wingman, you are not going to see Vina 7.03 again on your rigs. Cheers ![]() ![]() |
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starhuggrrr
Cruncher Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline |
No wings that I can see. A halo out of pipe cleaners maybe. ;-)
Thx NixChix. And thx for the explanation about memory leak. That sounds familiar from wherever I first heard about it. Very annoying, but darn, I was so enjoying blaming it on Vista... |
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starhuggrrr
Cruncher Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline |
I'm sorry to say this problem is happening again. It happened a week or so ago, when 4 jobs were stuck in memory, and I didn't have time to trace what was happening. I had to exit the whole program in order to use my computer.
----------------------------------------It just happened again tonight. There are 2 programs showing in Windows Task Manager: one is FAHV_VINA_7.06_windows_intelx86 (about 1.4MB) and the other is FAHV_VINA_PROD_32.EXE.7.06 (about 34MB). They're not active at the moment, but I had to check because my computer suddenly became very slow and unresponsive. This slow-down happened earlier tonight too but I was in the middle of something and couldn't check the cause. My underestanding was that the 7.06 series wouldn't give this problem, or was that just the FAAH? Why is this happening again? Edited: The strange thing is that I can't see any FAHV_VINA jobs in my tasks list at all. FAHV, yes, and a bunch of jobs waiting to be reported, but nothing with VINA in the name as far as I can see. [Edit 1 times, last edit by starhuggrrr at Sep 3, 2013 2:35:20 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
FAHV means Fight Aids a Home VINA
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starhuggrrr
Cruncher Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline |
Hi Alan,
I don't know what VINA stands for either. :-) Does any of this tell you why I'm getting programs stuck in memory? FYI: WCG/BOINC has been running normally (while computer not in use) for about the last 10-12 hours, but those files I mentioned above are still stuck in memory (the .exe.7.06 now up to 48.5MB). It has been crunching, finishing, uploading and checkpointing throughout that time, and I don't see any trace of the jobs it was most recently crunching in my Task Manager list -- yet those two FAHV_VINA 7.06 files are still there. I could reboot and they would leave memory, I'm sure, but I'm trying to keep this state intact in case there's something I could do that would help to diagnose the problem. But I have tons of work to do today and don't want to keep them there much longer. Can someone please help me diagnose this? Many thanks. :-) |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Could help, but not able to make much sense of what you're telling. With LAIM *off* (Leave Application in Memory when [BOINC] paused/suspended), all tasks and their application are supposed to exit memory, and bar memory leaks, free up everything back to the general pool. This is [intentionally] ONLY when a task is past the first checkpoint [job], some able to last 20-30 minutes, maybe longer depending on speed of host [would that be part of what you see?]. Of course, if the setting is to run always, than nothing will unload if the user is at the keyboard or mouse or joyshtick. Make sure to:
----------------------------------------1) Set "Run based on preferences", for CPU and GPU, if you need to have free reign. 2) Set memory use by BOINC to default, 50 or 60% when computer is in use, if you allow computing to continue always. This ensures that 1 or more jobs are paused and moved, eventually to VM, when they are big. AD VINA, VINA being a fast and specializing variation of AutoDock, used by quite a few sciences at WCG and elsewhere, past and present, and thus a fairly well known entity, and VINA meaning nothing, just an out of the air name choice by the programmer, have I lost you already (?), consists of a stager/controller application, not using CPU time but seconds in the hour, and a worker which unloads when each job segment finishes and reloads a new one for the following, as launched by the same stager [it remains in memory for the full duration of a task, unless settings are to unload when paused/suspended. Depending on what the techs decide and the speed of each segment, there can be few, it could be many in a task [I had a few that were probably at the tail end of a target, which just lasted 2-3 minutes for a complete task]. Momentarily all tasks are cut so they don't take too long on an Android device, so there are not many 'jobs' packed in a task, meaning, the whole application including the stager unloads at 100% and a new one [stager] launches with a new task, each in their isolated/sandboxed [shared] memory segment. How to diagnose... no idea. Some SysInternals tools, world famous amongst the hands-on folk, might do that for you... hit the books on a tool such as Process Explorer. Given that I'm running about 250-275 tasks a day of SN2S and FAHV and not seeing leaking, up time between boots as long as the intervals between MS patch Tuesdays, ergo once a month, I'd consider leaking or lingering as an improbable [Win7-32+64 & Linux-64]. I'd notice. That said, in case someone gets the urge to bring it up again, batches with 4AOD and 4AOE in the task name of SN2S are large memory usurpers. Yesterday had a bunch running serially, 8 concurrent, biggest 550MB a piece [logged]. Did not notice until I looked in on the machine I 'use'. These 2 come and go and seem to be a thousand, maybe 2 thousand per target... not calcd closely. The bulk of tasks goes between about 50 and 200MB, it varies substantially depending on the search space needed to complete the simulations. 2 cents of inserted guessing. P.S. What is a historic leak source is the BOINC Manager GUI... some have seen that one go to 1GB. I don't use it, it's not needed, instead use BOINCTasks, a multiclient manager and history tracker of all completed results, on all hosts. [Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Sep 3, 2013 4:36:10 PM] |
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starhuggrrr
Cruncher Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Post Count: 22 Status: Offline |
Hi Rob,
Once again, many thanks for your help and comments. :-) I see that one of the tasks that is finished and ready to be uploaded is a SN2S_4AOD, but I doubt that was a culprit last night. The log shows many uploads of finished tasks, so this one was likely running overnight sometime. However, I'll try to watch out for these in the future and try to allow them to run only overnight. I'm not sure if I'm using BOINC GUI or not - if you're referring to the pretty graphical screensaver, no I'm not. Screen just goes blank when idle so that a screensaver doesn't take up CPU time away from WCG crunching. I have the preferences set so that computing takes place anytime, but not while the computer is in use, and only starts up again after 5 minutes being idle. When it's crunching, it uses up to 90% CPU and 100% of the processors (Intel QuadCore). I find this setup gives the most crunching time to WCG while still allowing me to use the computer without it slowing me down (usually). As long as none of these programs gets stuck in memory, this seems to work pretty well. I am currently working from home so I'm on the 'puter most of the time, but when I'm not I want it to do WCG work. There are other issues that slow down my computer (RAM limitations mostly) but when I find there's a serious slow-down (that's not caused by other obvious issues) that's when I find that WCG programs are still in memory when they should be cleared out (due to the computer being in use). I'm using Vista, which might be a significant source of the problem, as NixChix suggested previously. When I finally win the lottery and can afford a new computer ;-) I guess I'll see if the same problem happens on an up to date version of Windoze. The last time I rebooted was 2 days ago, so the problem occurred (or was noticed) around 36 hours after the reboot. I don't think there's a way to tell the BOINC manager to decline high-memory jobs, is there? Not without refusing all jobs from a particular project, as far as I know. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
As I mentioned, LAIM Off or On decides if tasks are unloaded when the computer is used, and tasks are passed the first checkpoint, this and of course BOINC running based on preferences, which I read it does since computing does get suspended.
How to control 'total' memory use by BOINC and indirectly also the use of the number of processors on your quad is by setting a low memory % when in use. E.g. suppose your comp has 4GB. Tasks take on average 200 for an overall 800MB. Set memory use while in use to 15% [600MB]. Then 1 or more tasks are paused with "waiting for memory" when big tasks come along. With LAIM on the paused ones moved to VM, one or more cores are freed, and you have those 100% at your disposal... you could even continue, automagically, to BOINC on while working on part of your CPU. More so, there is the feature to make BOINC pause if the CPU load outside of BOINC is greater than an X percent. WCG default is 50%, but if you notice, set it as low as 25% [old default], or lower. Another way to maximizing contribution and you not knowing BOINC is there. You stop 'using' the computer and the 'idle' memory and processors return to full crunching duty. Finally, as a bonus, if you have specific programs that need more juice or have large disk IO, you can instruct BOINC to suspend, long as these are loaded. Needs just 1 line per application such as <exclusive_app>myworkprogram.exe</exclusive_app>. There's also code to pause GPU computing, e.g. when TD_Scribe is doing his WoT [to pronounce with German accent ;o]. |
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