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anhhai
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Problem with the increasing size of WUs

Now that the WUs for the beta for c4cw target03 is finishing up, it seems that the new c4cw WUs will be twice as big as the current c4cw. Is there any chance of the admins cutting the size down to the current size?
I am not really affected by the size increase however, I have friends that only crunch 1 hr a day (if that). Increasing the of the WU will take this project out of the feasible range for them. This change combine with the increase for HPF2 will limit them to just 2 projects (HCC and HCMD2), which I guess is some what reasonable. However, I thought this grid was design for the part time crunchers? I have to believe there are other out there that have the same problem, some may have even given up on WCG because of it.
I understand that increasing the WU size helps reduce stress on the server, but can't this be done in a different way? For example, couldn't WCG send out 2 c4cw WU instead of 1? This is easier to process, because most people will have more then 1 core in their system (if they don't then it doesn't hurt them, since both WU would take as long to process as the bigger one).
I also remember there was some discussion about matching WUs to computers based on how much they can handle, but that is probably a long ways away.
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[Dec 3, 2010 4:06:56 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Problem with the increasing size of WUs

By bigger I hope you mean longer, I did the too big whinge last weekend ;p

Perhaps an option to crunch long or short tasks could be introduced, with long tasks counting as two or three tasks, depending on their size (might inherently serve as an equilibrating method for different task types, and re-substantiate the existence of the task complete stats). The servers could automatically work out which task lengths to send to which computers, based on performance/turnover. This might facilitate improved server side distribution; it is easier on the server to package and send lots of tasks as larger tasks at the one time than lots of small tasks many times every day. However, if the option was available (automatically or by selection) to crunch smaller tasks it would also facilitate existing crunchers with more limited systems and extend their stay; a facilitation bridge until their next system.

While next year will bring new high end CPUs such as improved Extreme i7's and Bulldozer, we will start to see more mainstream mulitcore/thread systems (sandy-bridge cores will become more widespread). also
Ditto for the Zambezi, "In the middle of the second quarter, two models will have a total of 8 cores. The former has a maximum TDP of 95 watts and is therefore likely to be clocked lower."

While these may offer improved designs, many of the CPUs arrive with similar or lower clock numbers. So we are moving towards more cores but by in large not towards more speed per core (for the average system). Maybe something for the techs to think about in the new year, before these more-core CPU's come out. While multithreaded tasks may be less productive, many tasks could be packaged together/combined and split on the host.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by skgiven at Dec 5, 2010 6:37:23 PM]
[Dec 5, 2010 6:35:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
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Re: Problem with the increasing size of WUs

A worthwhile suggestion, but not all that do-able perhaps. I especially note the variability of tasks on HFCC. I have some 1.6gz P4's which do these in anywhere from 8 hours to 40+ hours. Since that system runs about 12 hours per day I do not worry the tasks will not finish in time. I do not think either the techs or the scientists know how long any particuar task may run on any individual platform. Some of the projects do come with a specified maximum length for the task i.e. CCW, CMD, CEP2. I do not know if all of the projects are amenable to having a maximum fixed length work unit. My only suggestion at this point would be to crunch those projects with fixed lengths rather than ones with a variable amount of work.

Perhaps other projects will be coming which will be shorter fixed length projects for the dedicated, but light duty crunchers.

Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
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[Dec 5, 2010 7:13:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
kateiacy
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Re: Problem with the increasing size of WUs

I share anhai's concern about WU lengths specifically for C4CW. I teach in a university and have been introducing students to volunteer computing, specifically WCG. Many interested students have only low-end laptops or just netbooks, but they want to get involved and do what they can.

Currently C4CW and CEP2 are the only environmental projects on WCG. Obviously CEP2 is out of the reach of low-power laptops. So for kids who are particularly enthusiastic about environmental science, C4CW is their only WCG option. Target 02s already run 11+ hours on an Atom-based netbook; doubling that would be a bit discouraging for kids to whom a day seems like a long time.

Getting young people involved in WCG is such a win-win. It's educational for them; they get to participate in important science; their crunching does contribute immediately; and if they get hooked on crunching now, they're likely to contribute more later when they have more resources to put into computing.
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[Dec 6, 2010 3:01:55 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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