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Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

First, let me say that I do spread the word, but I am not sure, whether it is easy to get new members.

This is why I think that really everything should be done to avoid people from getting frustrated and leaving Worldcommunitygrid.

The main reason for leaving might be the fact that a person given found out that his or her computer did not "make it", i.e. the first Workunit was not completed in time.

Then the person feels, "I am not good enough for Worldcommunitygrid, I wasted my computer time, electricity and so on". Logically, he or she quits Worldcommunitygrid.

In my opinion, a webpage, (not necessarily on www.worldcommunitygrid.org itself) could help.

What should such a webpage look like and how shoud it work?

The visitor of this webpage should be able to select from a list of all processors ever produced. Then he or she should be able to select, how much processor memory he or she has.
In adition, he or she should have the possibility to give the information, which operating system he or she has. In the end, he or she should have the possibility to give the information, how many minutes his or her computer is on per day.

With those informations given, the webpage should calculate, how many cobblestone operations
the computer of the given person will be able to do per day, and for which of the given projects the computer usage and type of the given person is suitable.

I do not know, whether Worldcommuitygrid has got enough information about the projects internal calculations necessary to create such a website, but it should be able to get those informations during the verification process each project has to undergo.

Important: The website should be accesible without registration, in order to avoid accusations of spying information about a persons computer configuration and computer usage.

This is the first part of my proposition.

The next part is the possiblity for users which only very little computer usage per day,
to get workunits of a special batch. Those workunits should not have a time limit at all.

Points shoud be given right after returning the result. If lateron the same workunit is done by a different computer and could not be validated for some reason, the points could be taken away from the person who has sent back a cheated result (overclocking and so on).

I think it would be good and motivating to have Workunits without time limit, taken form a special batch or special batches (in order to avoid chaos)

There should be the possiblitiy to let worldcommunitygrid know about the fact that a given person wants to get Workunits without timelimit during registration process.

If they mark the field "I use my computer only very little time or have an old computer", then they should get workunits without time limit being part of a special batch.

Thank you for reading this long text. Even if my wishes cannot become reality now, I hope that one day in the future, there will be an evalutation of all propositions and maybe mine will be taken into accout
All the best
Martin Schnellinger
[Nov 15, 2010 11:52:36 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
deltavee
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

I think there would have to be some sort of time limit or some work units would never be completed. One time my wife inadvertantly deleted boinc from one of our computers. Those WUs were gone. If they had no time limit then they would never had been completed.
[Nov 15, 2010 11:59:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Coleslaw
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

If you are running your computer for only 15 minutes a day, you are pretty much wasting your time with distributive computing. For those people running only a few hours on Old outdated systems, then there are other projects outside the WCG that probably would be more suitable due to report deadline. Climate Prediction gives around a year to finish. As much as I would love to have a project here at WCG that uses less then 32MB Ram, I doubt many scientists will find this useful. If they did, then there are a lot of really old Pentium 1 computers still laying around that would work just fine. Unfortunately, I have to put those on Docking@home. :p
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[Nov 16, 2010 1:16:55 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

Idk, I like the thought of really small or no time limit workunits; however, I must also accept its invalidity.
A shame too, me and everyone else on this forum seem to have a ton of crappy computers just sitting around.
[Nov 21, 2010 8:11:35 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Coleslaw
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

So run them for more then a few minutes or choose the projects that are less demanding. For example, don't run CEP2 or FAAH on an older system or system that doesn't run for more then a few minutes. I have many old computers that crunch the WU's just fine, you just gotta let them run.

Edit: I think my oldest machine running right now is an Asus 266MHz that sits in my garage crunching away. It only has 64MB of ram, but still turns them in on time. It doesn't provide a lot of points, but it does help with badges just the same. Either way, it is a little boost to the research being done.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Coleslaw at Nov 21, 2010 11:39:43 AM]
[Nov 21, 2010 11:31:40 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

A problem I have to deal with is the amount of RAM now needed. This has drifted up over the last year or so.
    Research Project Available Memory Requirement (per task)

    Computing for Clean Water 400 MB
    The Clean Energy Project Phase 2 1,024 MB
    Discovering Dengue Drugs Together Phase 2 1,024 MB
    Help Cure Muscular Dystrophy Phase 2 64 MB
    Influenza Antiviral Drug Search 250 MB
    Help Fight Childhood Cancer 250 MB
    Help Conquer Cancer 250 MB
    Human Proteome Folding Phase 2 250 MB
    FightAIDS@Home 250 MB

The WCG use to have several projects that did not require much RAM, but now there is only one with a small RAM requirement (HCMD2). While I like to support this project I would also like to support other projects. As well as the task/app size increases this is partially as a result of system updates, new operating systems and larger apps eating up existing memory; you use to be able to run XP on 128MB RAM and crunch, now you really need 512MB just for basic system usage. This reduction in available RAM and increase in app/task requirements means we can only run HCMD2 on systems with 512MB RAM, still a common amount for older systems. When you move that up to 4, 6 and 8 core/thread systems you have to say 512MB is the system requirement and then add 250MB per core/thread for 5 projects and more for others.

To run the 250MB tasks on XP the requirements are:

768MB for 1 core
1GB for 2 cores/threads
1280MB for 3 cores
1.5GB for 4 cores/threads
2GB for 6 cores/threads
2.5GB for 8 cores/threads
3.5GB for 12 cores/threads
4.5GB for 16 cores/threads
6.5GB for 24 cores/threads

On Vista & W7 you would need to add another 512MB to that (1GB for the system):

1280MB for 1 core
1.5GB for 2 cores/threads
1792MB for 3 cores
2GB for 4 cores/threads
2.5GB for 6 cores/threads
3GB for 8 cores/threads
4GB for 12 cores/threads
5GB for 16 cores/threads
7GB for 24 cores/threads

As for C4CW on Vista & W7:

1.5GB for 1 core
1792MB for 2 cores/threads
2224MB for 3 cores
3GB for 4 cores/threads
4GB for 6 cores/threads
4.5GB for 8 cores/threads
6GB for 12 cores/threads
7GB for 16 cores/threads
12GB for 24 cores/threads

For the 1GB tasks (CEP2 & DDDT2) its more of a problem for average systems; while 24GB might suffice to run 24tasks on a 24 thread system (most tasks dont quite use 1GB), for more common systems it's not the case:
On a quad core/thread system with 4GB RAM you dont quite have enough RAM to run 4 tasks. Even 3 tasks with one 400MB or 250MB task might be too much. The same applies for the still common dual core systems with 2GB RAM, and 8 thread i7's with 6GB RAM (again a common amount of memory for triple channel RAM).

While I am prepared to fork out on a good CPU, I am not going to spend a fortune on RAM. I expect other people think along these lines too. As a result I am mainly running HCMD2 and some 250MB tasks here, and crunching for several non-WCG projects. Should the HCMD2 project stop (or increase RAM requirements) and not be replaced by a project with similar requirements my contribution will drop significantly.
[Nov 21, 2010 2:33:20 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

L&Gs, before this goes run away, look at the Matrix FAQ. WCG checks the RAM minimum availability on work requests to ensure the impediment is none or very small to the user that crunches whilst at the computer, but the REAL ram use is substantial to drastically lower. We currently have 4 sciences (or subtypes of), that use less or top out below 64MB.

Similar is the free disk requirement check. The real is again much lower... all with huge safety so no volunteer ends up with tasks on a system that cannot execute them properly.

--//--

PS, if anything is not clear or is outdated in the Matrix, follow the link in the FAQ to a thread where you can post comments, observations, in a constructive manner of course. Not very receptive to weekend gripes ;-)
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[Nov 21, 2010 2:53:29 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Coleslaw
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

I agree that Ram is the big issue for newer projects and whether old systems will continue to run here. Currently, as you stated many projects will run on less RAM. My 266MHz Asus crunches FAAH in like 60 Hours or so. Not really a lot of results for the electricity, but it can still contribute. It will never have a hope to run things like DDDT2 or CEP2 because I don't think it can old more then 256MB Ram total if I decided to upgrade it. Currently it has 64MB and runs Windows 2k SP4 alongside BOINC.
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[Nov 21, 2010 10:54:53 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sk..
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

We currently have 4 sciences (or subtypes of), that use less or top out below 64MB.
You are correcting the official minimum requirements. I did say some tasks are shorter, but I was surprised by how much. The official information is very inaccurate, and does not list Win2K as a supported operating system either.
While DDDT2 does use less than 1GB, 664MB per task is still a substantial amount of RAM; 6GB would be touch and go for an i7-920, and that'€™s without GPU tasks. Similarly 3GB would be touch and go just running CEP2 tasks.
All tasks use less RAM than the listed minimum requirements, the difference from the published amount varies considerably:
DDDT2, 664MB
CEP2, 340MB is what I see now, but usage varies during the run
HFCC, 223MB (close to 250MB, the most accurately described)
C4CW, 83 to 88MB (substantially less than the 400MB listed)
FA@H, 75MB (much less than 250MB)
HPF2, 49MB (much less than 250MB)
HCMD2, 46MB (just under the stated 64MB)
HCC, 17MB (nothing like 250MB)

Of note is that HCC is the smallest task and not HCMD, though HCMD is the best to run on lesser CPU'€™s including atoms as the task is returned after a time period (6h or just over). Malaria control has recently been benefiting substantially from my unwillingness to over commit to bulky WCG projects. At least I now know that HCC, FA@H and HPF2 also use a small amount of RAM, so I can mix some of these into some systems.
[Nov 23, 2010 12:12:26 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Webpage helping to find the Worldcommunitytygrid project suitable for a given person? Special batch only for slow computers or users having their computers on only for 15 minutes a day?

Thank you for all contibutions.
To me,the Matrix FAQ and skgivens contribution were and are very useful.

At the moment I am thinking about a thing to ad to the Matrix. But it will take me some time to figure it out.

For now: Just thank you to erveryone.
[Nov 27, 2010 11:58:54 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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