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WCG could use some innovation Part II

In addition to the below, it's been said before but I'm going to say it again because someone isn't listening.

Any serious distributed computing project should have a command line client which has been created exclusively for folding, scanning, mapping, whatever the project calls for, with no graphic capabilities. A serious distributed computing user wants to work with the command line client because it spends cycles on the project, not on graphics.

Here's another example of foresight which the administration of a different distributed computing project considered. Back in early 2004, one of the users asked about dual-core processors which had not been released yet. The users question was whether he should theoretically run it via two instances of the client or just one instance.

The leader of the project, remember now, this is still early 2004, said they have been considering that upcoming architecture and are planning on having a client which would take advantage of that particular architecture when it became available or a little bit after and suggested that it should absolutely be run via two instances.

Now that is foresight, consideration, communication, and everything else wrapped up and presented to the user community by the project leader who answered the user forum question and created a feeling of worth and sense of involvement for the user community.

You are right about it being important to pick the right project, a good project, the best project that is available but you are making it sound like the advisory board is swimming in project applications and they are having a hard time deciding which one to select. I don't think that is the case. At least I'm guessing it's not the case. I'll never know because the Advisory Board doesn't release that info.

As far as worrying later about the TACTICS for attacking the project, a good project, the best project, it's been 7 months since this thing started and all I hear is stuff like 'We're not forgetting the computing user community"

I thinks it's time to wake and shake.
[Jun 4, 2005 9:31:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation Part II

Hi dreplogle

Thanks for the constructive criticism but if you have a look across the forum you will find out that a Linux agent is on it's way and eventually a MAC agent. Dual Core and SMP support is on it's way. The WCG has thought about these things and things are being done - it just takes a bit of patience. If you don't like the graphics you don't have to waste your CPU time on them just minimise the agent down to the task bar and jobs a good one and remember to turn off that screensaver. Other more typical users enjoy the feedbck that the program gives that something is cooking away inside their PC.

I would have thought that it would more efficient to support the X86 architecture fully/completely rather than chasing the rabbits of various Graphic Chip designs - these change almost weekly in the last 12 months we've had 9600,9700,9800, X800 from ATI and 5600,5700,5900,6800,6600 and 6200 from NVIDIA. This week I have heard of a 7800 arriving from NVidia . The X86 processor line has been around since 1987 (to my personal knowledge) something we should be glad for.

You say a serious distributed computing user wants to work with the command line. This is all well and good for an enthusiast but for the majority (which means the most will be contributed to the project) of computer users have had their Windows GUI for a while and have never seen a C:\ in a DOS box in all of their days with Bill's Products. I'm sure the Linux Client will have a command line option.

The leaders of this project regularly make an appearance on the forum check out posts from bbover3, Viktors, Knreed, Nelsoc and the Developer Alther. We have regular feedback from rbonneau the Scientist who is the recipient of all the data we have created in the special forum set up specifically for this interchange. You will find info on new projects also mentioned in this forum

It really has only been 7 months since the start of this project and we have only just laid the foundations for the future - which is going to be a good one.

I'm extremely lucky in being able to represent this community to IBM please be assured that IBM are listening - not just listening but acting on that feedback.

I hope you stick around to watch this space.

Please don't take offense by any of the above. It's just I've supported this project from day 1 and I think you are being slightly unfair as to how the project is running we have completed at least 60% of Project number 1 which in anybody's book is great news starting from scratch on November 16th only last year.

Take care and all the best
Sam
[Jun 4, 2005 10:34:59 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation Part II

Hello, dreplogle,

New thread? It is probably easier on members to follow new posts in one thread. This continues http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=2988

I need to speak more clearly in my posts. bbover3 has posted that he has one man working full time contacting organizations to persuade them to propose projects for us to do. He has repeatedly requested WCG members to tell anybody considering a worthwhile computer project to contact us. This is the most important area right now. Of course, we need to be ready when the projects come in. And they will.

If you look at http://folding.stanford.edu/ the first thing you notice is the number of languages available. We need something like this. There is some intra-corporate organizing needed to assemble proof readers, even if we use volunteer members to create the basic translations. This all takes time. Remember, Folding@home started in 2000.

Another good place to look for innovation is at http://www.distributedcomputing.info/projects.html . Try scrolling down and viewing all the different active projects. I am interested in some Japanese projects, but I am frustrated by language difficulties. How frustrating the World Community Grid must be for anyone who does not speak English?

There is a great deal to be done. To justify the World in our name, we are going to have to have our own Agent, deploy it using many languages, create multi-lingual web support and eventually deploy language-specific bulletin boards with appropriate moderators.
So I think that while we can and must work on many things simultaneously, we can start by listing Step 1 as getting Project Proposals for the Advisory Board to look at and Step 2 as developing a Linux agent that we can use to experiment with and test various modifications while getting helpful feedback and suggestions from knowledgeable computer enthusiasts. Meanwhile, I hope that something will get started soon on developing support for other languages. The easiest way would be to start with one additional language and see what is needed in the way of admin support and where the main problems are.

This is just my own idea of how to approach the future. But we certainly have not reached anything like our final form.

mycrofth
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nerd01
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Re: WCG could use some innovation Part II

We all know that the number of WCG members is raising slower and slower, and there's no increase in total run time per day...
But WCG is still very young and both releasing the Linux Client and finishing our first project should be the moments that will "wake and shake" WCG...

So cheer up guys, in a few months everything will look better. smile (I hope... wink )

Regards,
----------------------------------------
nerd01
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[Jun 4, 2005 11:31:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation Part II

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[Jun 5, 2005 12:12:40 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Viktors
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Re: WCG could use some innovation Part II

Rest assured that we are not short on innovative ideas. We have a very long list of innovations, enhancements, new functions, etc. which we have prioritized. I don't want to publish this list because we will just get more emails asking when some particular favorite will be ready. However, we are a small team, and being a philanthropic, non-profit project, we don't have an infinite budget. Thus please be patient with us. We cannot do everything in the list at once.

As for new projects, we are receiving proposals and are in various stages of evaluating them. We have people dedicated to following up on any leads for additional proposals. It takes quite a bit of work from proposal to a running project, so please be patient with this also.

BTW, we have encountered scientists that should be able to use this kind of massive grid power, but they have never seriously given it any thought because computing power of this scale is well beyond their budgets. So, it will take them time to develop a project, the programming to go behind it, and to test the validity of their approach before it appears on the grid.

Members can help by getting the word out to their research friends, many of whom are not aware of the computing power we are making available for free. This will give them more lead time to come up with ideas on how to use our grid. Some researchers ask, "What is the catch?" There really is none except that the project must benefit mankind or the world, and the immediate results must be placed in the public domain.

As for getting more members and devices, we have some things planned in the next few months that should help a lot with that. Sorry, I cannot spill the beans on those things yet.

Finally the best way to get more members is using a grass roots approach. There is an article here: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=5686 which describes how grass roots efforts are far more effective in the long run than big publicity events. So go out and sit down with your friends, neighbors, and relatives and show them how to install the grid agent, join a team, and use the web site and forums. I find it amazing how often people say they will download and install the agent, yet never do it without someone actually sitting down with them and doing it with them, while explaining what it is all about. So please, "Ask not what World Community Grid can do for you, ask what you can do for World Community Grid."
[Jun 5, 2005 4:08:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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