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WCG could use some innovation

Hello All,

I've been looking at the Folding@Home project led by Prof. Vijay Pande over at Stanford Univ. The team over there has so many innovative projects going on. I could really understand why users would want to switch to start processing for them and possibly many already have. That effort has initiated:

1. Multiple Protein Projects (This description is very high level and general)

2. Several different ports to other OS's (Linux and MAC....)

3. Gromac and Amber ports (see folding@home site for details)

4. Consideration of specific hardware ports (i.e. Clearspeed CSX600)

And here is a real biggie which has gotten many users excited over there...

5. The Pande Group Folding@Home team has been working with the big GPU developers, Nvidia, ATI, others...for looks like going on a year or more and will be offering a client capable of utilizing the Graphics Processing Unit. This will in theory immediately DOUBLE the projects processing power.

6. Prof Pande seems to be very intimate with their forum and freely discusses many of the issues of the project along with the science as if he were part of the audience.

7. Prof Pande and the Pande Group have looked into ports for the yet to be released Ageia Physx chip and have discussions on creating a port for the PS3 'Cell' processor. One which looks like a possible candidate and the other a probable candidate.

IMO, the enthusiam exists with that project because the leaders of the project join in forum discussion with the users and the exchange is a two way street. This has been going on over there since the year 2000.

There exists an atmosphere of innovation over there that the leaders of WCG need to start emulating or IMO this project will continue to slowly lose its appeal to another philanthropic project that at least overtly shows off new projects, new innovations, new STUFF!

To be fair to the WCG administration, I do believe the Folding@Home project gets alot of volunteer labor in the form of college students to investigate and code these different ports and that is one resource that WCG does not have access to. However, going out and talking to Nvidia and ATI is just one of the things that WCG admin could do. Maybe they have but there's alot that they do not communication.
[Jun 4, 2005 2:30:38 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation

Good points, dreplogle!

I occasionally pop over to read the news posts at Folding@home. Very interesting. We may pick up some good ideas from them.

My personal opinion is that the truly critical point is acquiring GOOD projects to run. That is the key. Pick the right mission, then experiment with tactics. We are not ignoring the need to improve our computing organization. We do intend to expand from our current Windows-only configuration.

mycrofth
[Jun 4, 2005 1:35:59 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation

The folding@home project is very impressive. I had a google button on my google toolbar which ran folding@ home.

But alas, this is Stanford University the place were most of the early companies populating Silicon Valley were birthed.

So Stanford has had a very long history of having the cream of the crop at least as far as high tech is concerned. Comparing any project to the likes of folding@home is like comparing apples to oranges.

The WCG dosent have all the bells and whistles but it is stable and gets the job done. This project as far as my laymen background can tell will be a very usefull tool especially in the field of comparative genomics. Where they try to compare the predicated structure with a real life structure using the Mammoth program.

This is just conjecture on my part.

The communication issues are legititment as far as the ISB+UW+MIT part of this project are concerned.
But like most Distrubuted Computing projects, PR is not the strong suit of the scientists involved.
[Jun 11, 2005 6:49:06 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation

I did originally start using folding@home but then switched to WCG. Why? Well, I came across folding@home first hence that's why I started with that.

Then I found WCG and thought folding@home was specific to a particular project, whereas I perceived WCG to be a more open with the promise of hosting other projects. (ie I perceived folding@home = 1 project benefitting a (albeit fair) few with an 'expirey date' (i.e. once the main project is over, what then?), WCG = many projects benefitting many people, on a continuous basis with new projects being introduced all the time)

Unfortunately, though, my initial enthusiasm might have been a bit misplaced. 6 months since I first started using WCG (under a different user - I forgot the details so created a new account), there's still only the one project.

I think I would be much more enthusiastic if the standard for project inclusion was lowered so there were more causes to actually benefit from the grid.

I would prefer to select myself which causes should benefit from my CPU, rather than have a committee I don't know make that decision. I'm sure that others must be either being turned away or put off because of the high standards, but for who I would be quite happy to provide my CPU cycles to. Currently it seems the standards are so high that only 1 project makes the grade! Surely there are many other causes who want to run projects?

Whilst I can understand that the WCG grid team may want to run one project at a time to get results faster, it may be backfiring because it appeals to a narrow range potential contributors.

Different people prefer to support different causes... some people (like myself) have lost relatives to cancer and so prefer to help cancer research, others may prefer to help causes like AIDS research, malaria research etc.

If people could see a whole long list of causes that could really benefit from them joining the grid, and maybe select for themselves those which they prefer to give their CPU time to, then I think many more people would be eager to help.

Also, including (even just small) projects from non-american institutions from all-around the world may also help to combat the perception that I have (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) that the world community grid should actually be called the "support american economy grid".

I'm quite sure there would be willing organisations and institutions in non-US countries who could develop and host (all outside of US jurisdiction) some small projects for the grid, which could demostrate that the grid really is for all. (The grid software could install DLL's (plugins) from non US countries as part of it's installation and updating routines, wthout those DLL's ever being transferred through a US jurisdiction - much the same way as software like adobe photoshop allows a user to add plugins that the original program authors have never had anything to do with)

I just can't help thinking though that that will never happen, because in reality the WCG is just a PR exercise by an american company (IBM) to further it's own (and other american company's) commercial interests.

Please WCG prove me wrong... I really would like to be proved wrong on this one...please include some non-american originated projects, and give the user the option to select which projects they donate their CPU time to... (with the default option set to share equally between all projects for those who don't wish to discriminate)

Anon.
[Jul 2, 2005 7:06:36 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation

Hello Auto,

We are thinking along the same lines. I do hear some things about the search for new projects. The bottleneck is not inside WCG. The problem is that very few people have been seriously considering implementing projects requiring millions of dollars of computer time, which is the service that we provide. WCG has one man working full time contacting possibilities, so word is spreading. I expect it will spread faster once we have completed projects to point to. This is the reason that bbover3 has repeatedly asked members to tell possible prospects about the WCG.

Eventually we will be running several projects at once. It just takes time to start the ball rolling. But then . . . maybe it will really start growing? I hope so!

mycrofth
[Jul 2, 2005 9:47:45 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: WCG could use some innovation

If it's something to make results faster, fine!!

I will say I used to do Stanford's genome-at-home, and they closed the project with 2 days' notice, because they ran out of money! I was very disappointed. sad
[Jul 3, 2005 9:23:33 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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