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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
First off, a reminder to everyone - civility received is civility given. We all know the topic of healthcare is one that is emotionally charged. Keep that in mind. Over in Chat, you don't have to look far to find intolerance and disrespect. I knew it would be a risk letting this discussion go on but it's a risk I thought and think is worth taking. I think we've done remarkably well so far with this topic. I don't think it would stand much of a chance over in Chat, no matter how much it may belong there. As a global team, we're about being global. That means we're going to differ in our opinions and beliefs. We're no more right wing than we are left wing. We've done quite well in our discussion of the topic here, certainly in comparasion to some of the flamewars these forums have seen over the years.
----------------------------------------I love the fact that, as an American, I have just as much right as anyone to be a blathering stupid idiot. I can even be one without realizing it. I know because I've done it. I don't agree with everything that's been said but that by no stretch of the imagination means that I'm right. I just means that I don't agree. Nothing more, nothing less. Having decent healthcare available to everyone is a great goal. Making that a reality is going to be very difficult. Part of me suspects that in the end, we'll see a face-saving bill get passed that makes some changes but nothing at a fundamental level. Everyone can claim victory, no matter how phyrric. We've had a number of elections over the last few cycles that have been nowhere near landslides for the winner. The polarization in Congress has become reflected in American society. It's getting embarrassing. Of course, it's something our media seems to thrive on since it's so good for their ratings. I'm not sure how much of it is real and how much is something fostered by the media. I would suggest first we back up and ask the question of whether we Americans have the right to expect healthcare to be widely available. There are plenty of places in the world where even basic healthcare is not available. In Africa, diarrhea is as big a killer as HIV or malaria. Simple zinc pills are a remarkably effective solution and is one that is also easily affordable there. Yet diarrhea remains a major killer of children there. Do we have to right to expect that anyone who needs medical care here in the US should be able to get it when needed whether they can afford it or not? Are our lives more valuable that those in other countries that routinely die from things that are unheard of here in the US? Programs here in the US like Medicare and Social Security are not funds where we get to draw out the money we've paid in. They are social compacts where the younger generation has agreed to take care of the older generation understanding that the younger generation after them will in due time take care of them. The older generation has operated under that social compact and made decisions and set expectations based on it. Changing that compact can have profound impacts on folks that don't have the ability to adapt, especially in the current economic conditions. For years, if not decades, many saw much of their financial wherewithal depend on the equity built up in their home. The fact that so many of us bought into the scam of easy credit only made things worse. The financial gurus tell us that you need to have $250,000 or so going into retirement just to cover the costs of your deductibles, Medicare premiums and such during retirement. With many folks who've done nothing wrong themselves surrounded by foreclosures, they now find themselves with homes that they can't sell in the current market without losing what little equity they may have left. They still have to pay taxes on the home though at valuations nowhere near down what they could sell the house for and at tax rates that have to increase to keep local governments from not just cutting but eliminating basic services. It's not exactly the ideal environment to change healthcare. When you're having to "unretire" and try to find work because you can't afford to retire anymore, you're not exactly overly receptive to the prospect of having your taxes go up even more to pay for healthcare for someone else. When you're still working but close to retirement only to lose your job and your hope for healthcare in your retirement, you're not very receptive either. Yes, these are situations that argue that healthcare should not be tied to employment. Changing that is going to cost money. It has to come from somewhere no matter who or how the healthcare gets provided. Since those of us in our 40's and up have seen a major portion of our retirement savings wiped out and current retirees are in no position to be able to wait for the economy to turn around and wait for their savings to recover, since those of us near retirement are no longer in a position to afford to retire, who is going to foot the bill for any significant healthcare changes? Do the 20 and 30 somethings really want to pay for that? They're already looking at the number of retirees that they have to support thru Social Security and Medicare double or triple over the next couple of decades. Idealism aside, who really wants to pay six or seven out of every ten dollars they earn out in taxes. That's the price paid in some of the European countries with systems that provide healthcare to everyone. With so many folks out of work now, a lot of folks are having to deal with the loss of healthcare insurance. Maybe that experience will alter how the issue is seen. Just because some of us are old doesn't mean we oppose making healthcare available to everyone. We've been around long enough though to know that doing that is going to cost money no matter how it's done. We've kept our end of the bargin and we expect the same from our government. Having a media that depends on ratings doesn't get us the objective coverage needed on major issues like this. There's plenty of mis-information going around to make a difficult task all but impossible. Even if we find a way to provide healthcare to everyone, there are plenty of other obstacles to realistically doing that. Primary care doctors are decreasing in supply but are a fundamental part of our current healthcare system. Nurses are in increasingly short supply. There are plenty of parts of this country where you have to travel three counties over just to get to a doctor. Whether they accept your insurance, assuming you have it, or accept Medicare patients is a whole separate issue. We can't just expect that those issues will get fixed at the same time. Doctors and nurses don't appear overnight, much less appear where you really need them. Healthcare for everyone who needs it is a great goal. Just because we're old doesn't mean we're opposed to the goal. To make it a reality will be no small feat. As always, the devil is in the details. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Lets take the commentary over to the chat room
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Good Night
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
MyOnlineTeam Daily Statistics for 08/14 - All Members:
----------------------------------------Team rank movement report =========================
Points milestones report ======================== No points milestones found. ![]() Runtime milestones report ========================= No runtime milestones found. ![]() Results returned milestones report ================================== Blueprint returned their 6,500th result ![]() Dresser returned their 1,600th result ![]() darth_vader returned their 1,100th result ![]() New members report ================== No new members found. ![]() Retired members report ====================== No new retired members found. ![]() For the week as a team: Statistics Total Run Time Points Results Team Records: Results Returned: 12/19/2007 2,522 Points: 05/06/2009 518,871 Runtime: 01/25/2006 1:123:00:53:34 Good crunching folks!!!! |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
MyOnlineTeam Daily Statistics for 08/14 - Active Members
----------------------------------------Active team members report ==========================
Note: Active members are those who earned points in the prior 30 days. Top Twenty active members returning points today: 01: RT - 72,611 points 02: marysduby - 66,568 points 03: brown chris - 19,463 points 04: parmesian - 19,346 points 05: NiceMedTexMD - 17,384 points 06: Dave Bell - 16,814 points 07: Blueprint - 13,182 points 08: Dresser - 10,943 points 09: keithhenry - 9,434 points 10: Jonathan Figdor - 6,225 points 11: Esteban69 - 6,146 points 12: Vuj - 5,421 points 13: harry_i_c - 5,177 points 14: sulcata - 4,624 points 15: stares - 3,989 points 16: frans6nl - 3,367 points 17: Sunny L. Kae - 2,804 points 18: PohSoon - 2,698 points 19: wrr - 2,597 points 20: imin - 2,500 points Total points returned today: 307,109 Active members returning points today: 36 Average points per member active today: 8,530.80556 |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
How is Dave doing? ![]() ![]() I've not felt too well the past few days and am mostly in bed. |
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RT
Master Cruncher USA - Texas - DFW Joined: Dec 22, 2004 Post Count: 2636 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Take care of yourself Dave. We need more people like you.
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
How is Dave doing? ![]() ![]() I've not felt too well the past few days and am mostly in bed. Sorry to hear that my friend. Hang in there. Wishing you the best, bro!! ![]() ![]() |
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brown chris
Master Cruncher California - USA Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 2423 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Lets take the commentary over to the chat room @marysduby, there is going to be a lot of editing going on in that chat room! LOL Good job. I was getting ready to create one, but you beat me to it. ![]()
BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
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RT
Master Cruncher USA - Texas - DFW Joined: Dec 22, 2004 Post Count: 2636 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Lets take the commentary over to the chat room @marysduby, there is going to be a lot of editing going on in that chat room! LOL Good job. I was getting ready to create one, but you beat me to it. ![]() I have neither the time nor the patience to continue that discussion here or elsewhere. It is frustrating and likely unhealthy, with everyone talking and almost no one listening; so I will avoid even visiting over there as I do not want to become embroiled in it again. Everyone keep crunching ![]() |
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