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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

andzgrid, please refer to our previous replies, where these issues are discussed in full.

Thank you.
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

Hello Didactylos.

Your post:
andzgrid, please refer to our previous replies, where these issues are discussed in full.

My comment:
I am not sure what goes in to your "these issues." There are possibly many inter-related items there. Also, the issues may have been discussed, but that is not the same as saying that the solution is there.

Thanks for your time.
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

We can only repeat ourselves so many times.

I am sorry if you find this unsatisfactory.

Your questions have been answered, again and again, by myself, my colleagues, and other members. They have all given you the same advice.
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nasher
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

your situation seems to be difrent than most people have

as fas as i know work units are sent to your computer to load down your work load based on how long it took your machine to do work based on your avarage... right now my avarage

Avg. Run Time Per Result (y:d:h:m:s) 0:000:07:23:18
from http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ms/viewMyMemberPage.do

the amount of work you get is based on this and the expected time to complete work units based on your benchtest (dont by BOINC every now and then)

honestly the only way to know if a work unit will take 2 min or 50 days is to base it on how long similar sized work units of the same project took...

i do not have your computer next to me so i cant check around on your BOINC setings or such to see how and why you have things set like they are...

you say you cant connect to the internet except every xxx days... how often can you connect what is the avarage you have returned... what are you setings all set to?

unfortunatly there isnt a simple answer to help you... but i guess the bigest is how often can you connect to BOINC and WCG.

also if you had your conncet every set to 10+ days BOINC will probaly not try to connect till 10+ days since you last connected ... again most of us can set things so they are to minimums cause we are always connected
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

Hello Didactylos.

Your text:
We can only repeat ourselves so many times. I am sorry if you find this unsatisfactory. Your questions have been answered, again and again, by myself, my colleagues, and other members. They have all given you the same advice.

My comment.
And what advice is that? Why not refer me to it for the last time and cite where or what I may have missed. Besides, who will answer the question "was my question answered?" You? I don't think so. If you look around most everywhere, I think that person will have to be me and I say that my questions (from specific issues I raised) were not answered to my satisfaction, certainly not from you. And please stop dragging everyone else as if you had permission to speak for them. Please speak only for your self.

Let us be specific. Where is the text in the posts earlier than this that answered my question: "What determines when a given WU's execution ends? Is this control coded in the WU itself?"

Besides, in case you have not noticed, I have never asked help from you in any of the posts here or earlier, nor anywhere else in WCG for that matter. If ever I expressly addressed a post to you asking for help, that must have been an inadvertent one.

If you do not feel inclined to help, I say do not. In fact, the way I see it, this thread would have brighter heads pitch in for ideas without you around.
.
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nasher
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

Hello Didactylos.

Your text:
We can only repeat ourselves so many times. I am sorry if you find this unsatisfactory. Your questions have been answered, again and again, by myself, my colleagues, and other members. They have all given you the same advice.

My comment.
And what advice is that? Why not refer me to it for the last time and cite where or what I may have missed. Besides, who will answer the question "was my question answered?" You? I don't think so. If you look around most everywhere, I think that person will have to be me and I say that my questions (from specific issues I raised) were not answered to my satisfaction, certainly not from you. And please stop dragging everyone else as if you had permission to speak for them. Please speak only for your self.

Let us be specific. Where is the text in the posts earlier than this that answered my question: "What determines when a given WU's execution ends? Is this control coded in the WU itself?"

Besides, in case you have not noticed, I have never asked help from you in any of the posts here or earlier, nor anywhere else in WCG for that matter. If ever I expressly addressed a post to you asking for help, that must have been an inadvertent one.

If you do not feel inclined to help, I say do not. In fact, the way I see it, this thread would have brighter heads pitch in for ideas without you around.
.


we are a helpfull comunity or try to be..

Didactylos has been trying to help as well

the bigest problem is we dont know a way to solve your issue but we are trying to help ...

how often can you realisticaly connect to WCG?
what is your guess on how many work units you can do in that time?

work units like RICE use a specified time to complete no matter how much ya have done the results end at 7-8 hours...

alot of projects end when they run out of task to process.. being it is incredable amounts of mathmatical problems the answer on how long it will take is hard to say (very rough example

10+10+10+10+10+10+10+10=80
15+06+03+08+05+11+21+11=80

what one was easyer to calculate they are the same amount of terms and the same process but will take the avarage person difrent times to calculate each

that again is oversimplified your processer is doing hundreds of thousands or more of calculations per second. so some jobs run quicker than others will but they try to figure how many your computer can handle.. another thing is how many programs do you have running in the background dose that varry..

i know one time when BOINC did its benchtesting i was running a defrag operation on my harddrive... needless to say BOINC slightly underated my machine till the next benchtest that it did...

to give you better answers than have been posted we need to know alot more about your computer and how much of your processer(s) dose boinc get to use and how often.. as well as how often you can comunicate... memory can be a big issue too.. as well as harddrive time... one of the Real life issues i deal with is one program i use at work is not actualy physicaly at work it is over 15 miles away... so everytime i want to use the program or change or such the data had to cross 15+ miles of cable (1 way) oh this isnt an internet connection so we doing get fiberoptics or so.. its a secured network... guess what it takes time.. so eveything in your ocmputer as well as how hot it gets and such make the diffrence in how much boinc allots to you...

i would like to help you any way i can but i need your help to understand what help you need so i can figure out how
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Sekerob
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

The crux is the connect frequency as what BOINC is told to adhere to and what is communicated to the servers on each contact. The deadlines are 10 days for regular work, no discussion. Let the servers know through the SET connect pref that you will connect within 10 days again and you'll get a good lot of work buffered. The servers really do not care about past history, other than a value rated to establish if a client is reliable for:

A. valid results
B. has a low return time so it can be assigned rush/repair work (under 48 hours).

Past performance is no guarantee for the future, same as the share holder reports read.

As for scheduling, the local prefs allow to have a single weekly connect for day and hours, thus set the Connect every X days to default, think it's 0.1 or 0.2 and additional buffer to e.g. 8-9 days. The best automated extension you thus get is each 7th day. Set it higher and various safeties kick in that differ depending on client version. BOINC by rule aims to complete all work 24 hours before deadline. If it has more than that, it will switch to high priority processing, which than whole or partially blocks work fetch again. Define your requirements within these limitations and visit the Start Here FAQ's for a network scheduled connect sample for pointers on how to configure accordingly.

2 Euro cents, from me.
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WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Jul 22, 2009 11:27:07 AM]
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

Hello WCG.

Attention:
•nasher
Your posts:
-Jul 22, 2009 9:40:23 AM
-Jul 22, 2009 11:06:50 AM
•Sekerob
Your post:
-Jul 22, 2009 11:21:04 AM

Gentlemen:
Thanks for your responses.

History
--------
I now recall that I had many devices that were under my user profile's device profile. I had only one computer then, but I had numerous computer crashes/problems then that led to re-installing the operating system, and subsequent to that, re-installing the then "UDManager" (UDM) client. Each install of the UDM resulted in one device under my profile. I think those devices add up to five(5) at the least (of which only one was active--the one that was actually contributing to WCG). I recall having raised this matter as an issue back then and WCG said back then that it had no way to remove such "phantom devices" nor was it a priority to address the matter. There may have been valid reasons why those phantom devices cannot be removed at that time. If before handing out the WUs, the WCG server looked at the average of listed devices under my profile then, then it was looking at an extremely low-performing devices, and there were four(4) of them under my profile then. Add this to the fact that I have been absent from the WCG crunching scene for a long time and that remaining one(1) true/active device was effectively (though not actually) also a phantom device.

Now
-----
If the WCG server does look at those devices where some may be phantom ones, then this may explain why the WCG server grossly underestimated its metering of the WUs before handing those WUs to my machine in a sync-up session. If that is not the case, then what was it that may have caused WCG to consistently grossly underestimate my machine?

Connect times
-----------------
I can always do a manual connect as what I did today (2009.07.22.Wed) if only because I hate seeing my machine idle while there is so much poverty, disease, etc in this world that my machine can be used (but isn't) to help solve for. And today's sync-up handed me a lower-than-full workload: even lesser WUs count than those I had from the earlier sync-up (2009.07.18.Sat). As I observed, whatever connect times I set, and whatever times I connect, I always get less-than-full workload. Without a solution on hand, the only way my machine can make sure it has enough workUnits, is to be online 24/7. I can't do that. However, when I am able to go online, I can remain so for up to 24hours (maximum), and 12hours (minimum).

My proposed "high-tech" solution
---------------------------------
I propose that WCG do one better than rely on historical performance data, and make a mechanism that actively reads the current performance of any device as the WUs execute in a machine. I submitted evidence to WCG in the form of completed WUs over a span of five(5) sync-up to the effect that my machine can do more. I was posting here that my machine can do more. I am asking for more WUs. My machine have been completing WUs at less than 50% of the days allotted before the deadline. For the interim, I ask that WCG read my current active device's performance as seen from the submitted WUs and base it's metering of the WUs solely from there.

The low-tech solution
----------------------
Failing the "high-tech" solution above, I ask that WCG give me a twitch less than double the amount of WUs (each carrying a 10-days deadline) that was handed to me during the latest two(2) sync-up sessions. My machine can easily do 12 8hr-runtime WUs per day. A 100 WUs workload with each having an expected (although, I understand, not guaranteed) 8hr runtimes, I think, would be just about right to keep my machine busy and still meet the deadline.

Thanks
.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

andzgrid,
The good news in your last messages is that your client can connect more often, and also for long sessions. If it had not been possible to connect at least once every 10 days, or to be safer, once every 9 days we would not have had any solution at WCG.

Let's first clarify an important point. You seem to think that you can work on x-day batches which would have one deadline attached to their whole content. You would load a big number of WUs, then process them offline, then upload all their results at once and report them, then load a new batch and so on.
Boinc client and server have not been designed this way. Their concept is that of a continuous flow of WUs, each with its own deadline and its own process cycle. The client asks for as many WUs as it computes are necessary according to your settings and your processing speed, the server sends them, they start to be processed immediately, and as the process of the first WUs progresses the client will ask for more WUs to keep the job queue at the correct size. When a WU is complete its result files will be uploaded immediately if a network connection is available, then it will become "ready to report" and it will be actually reported and made ready on the server side the next time the client requests more WUs.

The fact that this is designed as a continuous flow does not mean that you need to be connected permanently though. In fact the client will perform operations which need a connection as soon as it detects one. So if you connect after 2 days off line when the client will detect the connection it will immediately upload the result files of completed tasks and request new work for replacing them at the same time. The first time it will have no "ready to report" WUs to report, but at the next request for new work the WUs whose result files have been uploaded will be reported. The fact that your network sessions are long enough will ensure that the process works smoothly and you can also force an "update" before going off line for a long time to make sure that the last ready-to-report WUs are reported even if the client does not need new work at this time.

The client learns about its processing pace as time and process go. At the beginniing you will not receive 9 days of work even if you have set your extra work buffer at this value. But your stock of WUs will increase progressively as the client learns that it can ask for more work safely. One of its primary criteria is to ensure that WUs are returned early enough before their deadline, therefore if you "frighten" it by returning a bunch of WUs at the last limit or even too late (uploading and reporting hundreds of WUs at once takes a while) it will not "dare" to ask much work.

With the way you were working you were taking a serious risk to have WUs reported "too late" while they could have been returned and reported many days earlier.
With the continuous way new WUs which will be at the end of the queue will always have recently set due dates and will be able to wait longer.

This is what I suggest for restarting on a clean basis:
1. Open the Preferences window of your client and click on the Clear button
2. Also from the Advanced view of the client select Activity->Network always available
3. On the website display the profile attached to this machine (select My Grid->Device Manager, then click on the profile name of your machine)
4. In the profile window click on Maximum output at the top, then
5. Click on Custom profile to re-display the detailed settings
6. Check that the percentage of processor time is showing 100 %
7. Review your selection of projects to make sure it is as you like it and check the two boxes associated to this selection as you wish
8. In section Processor usage make sure that the % of multiprocessors is set to 100 %
9. In section Workunit cache settings leave or set the network value at 0.0 days and set the cache extra days value to 10 days
10. Do not forget to click on Save at the bottom of the Profile window
11. While you are still connected to the network, from the Advanced view of your client select the Projects tab, select the WCG line and click the Update button to force the client to receive the new Profile settings from the server.

From then on, keep your client connected as often and as long as you can. As I have said earlier it will probably take it several days to load a maximum of WUs, but at each network session it should normally load more, thus decreasing the idle time when you are obliged to stay offline for very long periods.
In any case make sure you have a long enough connected session at least every 9 days, otherwise your client might start to return "too late" WUs and it will reduce its requests for new work.

Keep us informed of the outcome, but be patient at the beginning. Jean.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by JmBoullier at Jul 22, 2009 10:03:04 PM]
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Ingleside
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Re: Reserve WUs (workunits) stopped filling up the stock.

Now
-----
If the WCG server does look at those devices where some may be phantom ones, then this may explain why the WCG server grossly underestimated its metering of the WUs before handing those WUs to my machine in a sync-up session. If that is not the case, then what was it that may have caused WCG to consistently grossly underestimate my machine?

#devices doesn't have any effect, only the computer you're using has any effects.

Connect times
-----------------
I can always do a manual connect as what I did today (2009.07.22.Wed) if only because I hate seeing my machine idle while there is so much poverty, disease, etc in this world that my machine can be used (but isn't) to help solve for. And today's sync-up handed me a lower-than-full workload: even lesser WUs count than those I had from the earlier sync-up (2009.07.18.Sat). As I observed, whatever connect times I set, and whatever times I connect, I always get less-than-full workload. Without a solution on hand, the only way my machine can make sure it has enough workUnits, is to be online 24/7. I can't do that. However, when I am able to go online, I can remain so for up to 24hours (maximum), and 12hours (minimum).

If you can connect once a week, my recommendation would be to try with:

1: "Connect..." at 8 days.
2: "Additional..." at zero.

If this gives you much less work than needed, it can indicate something wrong with your time-stats, but atleast your 1st. post indicates both on_frac and active_frac is 0.98+. Still, cpu_efficiency can be fairly low.

Also, if duration_correction_factor is much too high, you'll get less cached work than you should. If the estimated "To completion" before starting on a task isn't too far actual cpu-time after you've crunched the task, this doesn't seem to be the problem. The intial estimate is very often +- 1 hour in WCG, and +- 2 hours is also completely normal. But, if estimate is example 20+ hours and takes only 7 hours or something, it indicates a problem with duration_correction_factor...
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"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
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