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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 40
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello WCG.
Hello everyone! I feel great to be back here at WCG after a long time absence.. I got some crunching done alright but I ran into some issue after the first two "WCG-sync" sessions. Here's how it went. Attention: WCG tech. The WCG website pointed me to downloading a BOINC v6.2.28. On the first two sessions, I got a healthy 300+ WU (WorkUnits) batch on each sync session. I got to sync the 1st batch after completing the WUs there 7-days earlier than the 14-day deadline, with many of the WU taking 1.5hrs average to complete, and a number of WUs taking anywhere from 7hrs to 2hrs to complete. For the 2nd batch, I managed to sync just hours before the stated 14-day deadline. The WUs downloaded there, however, were only four(4) WU, which is a far cry from the earlier two sessions. The Error messages in the "Messages" tab are: - Message from server: No work sent - Message from server: (won't finish in time) Computer on 98.0% of time, BOINC on 98.5% of that Note that I've seen those same messages on the earlier two(2) batches and they did not seem to matter as far as keeping a stock number of reserved WUs to last throughout the span between connection/sync times. So, WCG tech group members, your ideas please as to what may have caused the "reserve" WUs to cease filling up the stock? Thanks. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Tasks mostly have a 10 day deadline, but some may be shorter.
For results to be useful, you need to return and report them well before the deadline. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello WCG.
Corollary to the approach for a solution to the issue of "Reserved WUs stopped filling up the stock" I first posted 2009.07.02Th.1519, if there is a way to use an "intermediary" device (say, a USB) where the BOINC Manager will first sync with, and from there plug in to an Internet-connected computer, I can have the flexibility to sync up more frequently and without requiring the computer (where BOINC runs) itself to get connected to the Internet for a sync-up. Also, if 10-days is the deadline limit, I suggest that this limit be imposed on the webpage where a user configures his/her network settings in WCG rather than allowing the user to possibly use a number that will later turn out to be with some problems. In any case, the original issue I had would still be a problem if there is no reserved WUs. This is akin to running a vehicle relying only on the fuel on the fuel lines; it does not make sense even if there is a fuel station in every corner. Note: The local config (file) for my machine is set to 10-days (between sync times). The local config file is supposed to override the setting I set on the WCG device setting webpage. Apparently, it was the WCG webpage setting that prevailed (which was set to 14-days between sync times) Thanks |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Believe it or not, nearly all the settings can be set to inadvisable values. If you are not comfortable adjusting them manually, I recommend you use one of the WCG presets.
Using an intermediary device is theoretically possible, but causes all sorts of grief. Don't try it unless you have no option. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Somewhere in here there must be plain English, but I've missed it entirely. Just to say that a result completed, provided there is an active connection, will report latest 24 hours after completion. The way this setup is presently functioning v.v."- Message from server: (won't finish in time) Computer on 98.0% of time, BOINC on 98.5% of that", the client(s) was/were never in a position to learn, so the penalty was presented upon reconnect. Since BOINC is designed to not only work for WCG, but for any project, the settings are much more loose than we like them to be. WCG simply limits a client day quota to ~320 tasks, briefly 640 when HCMD2 had only very short jobs. Even my slow quad managed that in a day.
----------------------------------------Transparent proxy... I know one person who was developing something like that, to pull work, allocate them to a crunchers, and sent them back as were they all coming off 1 machine. For that suggest to talk to WCG directly. Don't think it to be desirable for anyone to grab hundreds of results and not send anything back on a daily basis. Congestion in project batch completion is one effect. Now this could be construed a double dutch, but here you have it.
WCG
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Didactylos.
Fortunately, I am comfortable with adjusting the values for the parameters under the WCG Device Manager and I understand those parameters. The thing is what a limit value is for one setup or website may not necessarily be the same limit for another setup or website. I just can't find any point in not informing a user (else enforcing it) what the limits are. BOINC does impose a limit: one cannot enter a value greater than 10-days under the Advanced > Preferences > Network usage > Additional work buffer. Again, I understood that the local preferences file (via the BOINC) is supposed to override the WCG website settings. But, in my case, for some yet unknown reason to me, it did not: the website setting of 14-days is the setting that over-rode the 10-day setting/limit for the work unit buffer. So WCG handed me a 14-days worth of buffer reflected in the 14-day deadline. Was there any impetus for me to rush out the workunits because that 14-days value may be too long as to be "inadvisable" as you put it? How would a user know that? How would a user know that a value is "inadvisable" as to cause major problems later when the website does NOT seem to think that the parameter-value is important enough to warrant spending effort to prevent users from input-ing an "inadviasble" value? To the WCG tech group, please shed some technical light here. For one: why did the website value seem to have overriden the local (BOINC) settings (instead of the other way around) for the workunit buffer? Thanks. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Your local prefs were doubtlessly in effect if you set them. You can see it in the message log where there should be a line going:
----------------------------------------07/02/09 18:53:20 Reading preferences override file But if you inadvertently operated the clear button in local prefs you won't have that line. First time around you may have had exclusively 14 day deadline tasks for HCMD2, the only project with this deadline. On or before June 18, the HCMD2 deadlines were diversified, so your second load up probably had a mix of 10 and 14 days. Certainly the client would have started to notify in the message log "need to contact project" or similar, in red. Also, there may have been high priority processing. If that was not seen or ignored, the 3rd contact, another learning point for BOINC set safeties in motion, so it determined you went over the limit and just allowed 4 tasks to be fetched. Return those the same day and your quota will be upped again.
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Sekerob.
Your (Jul 3, 2009 7:43:55 AM) post was helpful in my effort to understand what may have happened relative to the concern of -- work units buffer not filling up the (correct) quota for any given case. We now have a good starting point to furthur close in on the issue. For my BOINC (v6.2.28) client: 1. Yes, there were a number of "Reading preferences override file" messages. 2. No and I am sure of this: I did not click on the clear button. If ever I inadvertently clicked on that clear button, I am sure that I have set the local preferences again. As a matter of practice, I always check the preferences every after BOINC launches and then check them again (under the message log) to make sure that I have the line "Reading preferences override file" as the last message with no other contradictory messages before BOINC starts crunching work units. 3. No, I do not have the line "need to contact project" or something similar under the message log. Also, I do not think that there is an impetus for BOINC to "contact project" in as much as the network usage times (for my machine under the local preferences) was set to 14-days. In any case, there was no network connect attempts done either autonomously by BOINC or I doing it manually. 4. If the WCG server determined that my case went "over the limit", I say that the call was in error. If there was an overdue workunit, then the deadline set for it was in error. There was not one work units that have been synced-up after the 14-day deadline. Every workunit that my machine crunched have been completed and uploaded before the stated 14-day deadline. All workunits carried a 14-day deadline. No downloaded workunits carry a deadline earlier than 14-days. I do not see why I was given a low count of 4 workunits (with a forced deadline of 1-day) when all evidence on hand suggest that the number was way off course for my case: I was doing fine with the 1st two batches. Again, if the 14-days deadline is too long, then again, why wasn't a lower limit imposed, else made clear to users? The way the above facts shape up is that they point to a WCG side server error, a BOINC client error, or the communication of the two as far as their assessment (what you refer to as "learning point") of the actual completed workunits uploaded by a user vis-a-vis the work unit deadlines for a batch/quota of workunits. Ideally, a user can have his/her machine connect online daily, and the WCG (server) program can be given a large space to operate on and learn. My case happen to be not that ideal -- the reason that I asked for the possibility of sync up with an intermediary device, say an USB thumbDrive. WCG: for your comments and resolution, please. ]Thanks. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
BOINC will attempt to contact WCG at least every 3 days, regardless of any other settings.
The only way you can know the deadlines for tasks is by looking at what the deadlines actually are. There is no contract or requirement or even guideline for what deadlines a BOINC project should set. Here, they are typically 10 days. If you set the network connection interval greater than the deadline, as apparently you did, then BOINC will be unable to schedule work properly. The deadline is not related to the amount of work you are sent. Each task has its own deadline. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Didactylos.
Your (Jul 12, 2009 2:13:27 AM) post was not helpful relative to the concern of -- work units buffer not filling up the (correct) quota. •Your text: "BOINC will attempt to contact WCG at least every 3 days, regardless of any other settings." •Fact: As I have stated in my post) which you have not obviously considered: "In any case, there was no network connect attempts done either autonomously by BOINC or I doing it manually." •Your text: "The only way you can know the deadlines for tasks is by looking at what the deadlines actually are. There is no contract or requirement or even guideline for what deadlines a BOINC project should set. Here, they are typically 10 days." •Fact: I never had even a single instance of the supposedly typical 10 days (deadline). As I stated in my (Jul 12, 2009 1:45:34 AM) post: "Every workunit that my machine crunched have been completed and uploaded before the stated 14-day deadline. All workunits carried a 14-day deadline. No downloaded workunits carry a deadline earlier than 14-days". •Your text: "If you set the network connection interval greater than the deadline, as apparently you did, then BOINC will be unable to schedule work properly." •Fact: The work schedule was properly scheduled for the first two sync-up in my case. There, it was on the 3rd and later sync-ups that the scheduling was way off the mark. •Your text: "The deadline is not related to the amount of work you are sent. Each task has its own deadline." •Fact: The deadline is (or is supposed to be) related to the amount of work sent. That is true eveywhere and I don't think WCG's case should be an exception. Each task does have its own deadline and that deadline needs to take into account the time it takes for a machine to complete the total amount of work sent, which in turn depends on the network usage times/freq. •Cpmment: I guess this is where the problem lies, and that is: the deadline is not related to the amount of work sent. If so, then the solution is straightforward: for WCG to relate the amount of work sent to the deadline. Thanks for your time. |
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