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Sgt.Joe
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Re: No Work at WCG

I now don't get the insufficient time error although the only 2 (new) tasks report that will be completed in 300 and 440 hrs respectively. The issue is probably related to the amount of time being so huge. Is there anything I can do to fix that?


Just leave it alone for a while and it will fix itself. The time estimates for jobs will get more accurate as BOINC learns what your job history is.

Cheers
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Sekerob
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Re: No Work at WCG

Anyways, I'll change it to 4 days like you said (I would appreciate if you could explain why). I also wanna say that I've always had it like that and have only canceled 2 task on my desktop due to I knew I wasn't going to complete them in time (the desktop is running normally btw).


High flux projects such as CEP and HCMD2 are the reason. If you have 4 days in queue and suddenly a few jobs run 3 times longer, all the jobs in buffer start extrapolating that to themselves. I.e. I had flu jobs in the queue that run 5-6 hours, but after a few extended jobs, started showing 25 hours. It was enough to stop all work fetching for a few days until almost all was depleted and BOINC wised up and lowered the socalled rDCF (result Duration Correction Factor). In case of 7 days, there would thus have been way too much and a panic state [high priority] taking over.

Mind you, if you have a long series of 1 hour jobs and shorter for HCMD2 and suddenly the parent HCMD2 jobs in force come along that run 4 hours, similar happens. BOINC still think initially it can do them in 1 hour, load up and realize it got 4x more. The parents happens when a new batch is put in the feeders, so you'll always see the times saw toothing.

It's up to you to decide if you don't want those situations to develop or trust it will always come right. BOINC is as yet not enabled to handle different WCG projects with their own time projections. It's all 1 pot.
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Former Member
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Re: No Work at WCG

Well, so just like you've said, I'll just let it run until it normalizes.

What is the recommended amount of days to cache work (I set it to 4 since you guys said that should be the top). But can you explain the implications of having more or less cache days of work? and what is the optimum?
[Jun 16, 2009 1:02:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: No Work at WCG

Well, so just like you've said, I'll just let it run until it normalizes.

What is the recommended amount of days to cache work (I set it to 4 since you guys said that should be the top). But can you explain the implications of having more or less cache days of work? and what is the optimum?

I explained why 4 days above. This value you'll also find in Help. It's a suggested maximum to prevent most excess buffering when work suddenly gets longer.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Sekerob at Jun 16, 2009 1:14:18 PM]
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Re: No Work at WCG

I just looked it up in the help and found it. I now set my profiles to 3 days of work which I think is the best.

For future reference to others these are the links where it can be found:
Search: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewSearch.do?searchString=cache+work
Help: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewTopic.do?shortName=bnc#277

Thank you very much for your help guys.
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Ingleside
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Re: No Work at WCG

I just looked it up in the help and found it. I now set my profiles to 3 days of work which I think is the best.

For future reference to others these are the links where it can be found:
Search: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewSearch.do?searchString=cache+work
Help: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/help/viewTopic.do?shortName=bnc#277

Thank you very much for your help guys.

Appart for estimates being wrong, the main reason for the FAQ introduced the "4 days max" is due to http://www.boinc-wiki.info/Work_Buffer#Recomm...or_Single_Project_Systems that shows that with WCG's normal 10-days deadline, any cache-settings larger than 4.24 days actually gave less cached work in BOINC-v5.8.xx.

Later BOINC-clients introduced the "Maintain enough work for an additional N days"-cache-setting, and as long as "Computer is connected to the Internet about every N days" is small, you'll not have the same client-limitations for large cache.

Still, the main cache-rules are, if cache-size is due to:
A: Planned outages, like if you know computer won't have a network-connection for a week, use as large cache-setting as needed to cover the outage, but remember the 10-day deadline on most WCG-work, or currently 14 days if you only runs CMD2.
B: Unplanned outages, like server unexpectedly going down, or your network-connection unexpectedly going-down or something, it's a waste of time to cache more than "normal deadline / 2". For WCG this means absolute max 5 days for this group, with recommended 4 days.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Ingleside at Jun 16, 2009 4:02:20 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: No Work at WCG

I think you entirely missed to see the 4 days in context of hi runtime fluctuation and the rDCF inflation. That was the purpose to help folk to not end up with overfilled caches when using the "Additional Buffer" option and eventually run on high priority and the potential of getting to the last results and them being treated as No Reply and worst case Too Late. Very Very few these days I think still juggle that connection option and just let it sit at the I think 0.1 default.
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Ingleside
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Re: No Work at WCG

I think you entirely missed to see the 4 days in context of hi runtime fluctuation and the rDCF inflation. That was the purpose to help folk to not end up with overfilled caches when using the "Additional Buffer" option and eventually run on high priority and the potential of getting to the last results and them being treated as No Reply and worst case Too Late. Very Very few these days I think still juggle that connection option and just let it sit at the I think 0.1 default.

Well, I pointed to why the WCG-FAQ recommended max 4, it's not my fault the WCG-FAQ doesn't seem to have been updated since v5.8.xx in this regard...

As for users cache-size, I'm not aware of there being more than two major groups, the group that "need large cache since computer offline for N days", and the group that "needs" a large cache "to handle outages"...

For the 1st. group, they'll likely manually re-enable network-connection, so can also handle any excess cached wu's at the same time, and most would likely set a little excess cache just to be on the safe side doesn't run-out much too early. This is a disadvantage to WCG, but isn't really much to do with, since even with "perfect" estimates, there's still the ocassional wu that terminates early...

For the 2nd. group, they're most likely permanently connected, so most normal fluctuations will fit within the "deadline / 2"-rule with the extra "safety-margin" gave it. But granted, the CMD2-estimates especially at the start was so far from the truth, that even with a 1-day cache-setting you risked being overcommitted.


BTW, if you're really going to take into account the wrong-estimation for the group that "needs" a large cache-size, you'll need to set a shorter cache than 4 days... If example estimates is 1/2 of reality, the cache-size should never be over 2.5 days with a 10-days deadline.
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Former Member
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Re: No Work at WCG

For the 2nd. group, they're most likely permanently connected, so most normal fluctuations will fit within the "deadline / 2"-rule with the extra "safety-margin" gave it. But granted, the CMD2-estimates especially at the start was so far from the truth, that even with a 1-day cache-setting you risked being overcommitted.

I think the point being missed by most people writing about cache size is that all crunchers do not have the same risk of downtime. I have not had a non-WCG connection outage of over 4 hours in the last year for any of my systems. All the WCG outages were either planned (server move) or an empty hopper (covered by selecting ...other projects...).

I used to run 2.0 days until I realized that I was delaying validation for all my wingpersons and it impacted my reacting to new projects coming online.

For me even .3 days is overkill. There is no right answer for all crunchers. Cache size may only depend on the reliability of your Internet connection. It doesn't seem to be needed for WCG with its near 100% uptime. cool
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