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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: BOINC Agent Support
Thread: Same CPID for 2 different accounts |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 60
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
To go back to the OP, just done it, but it will remain my secret.
----------------------------------------Account A showing at BOINCstats 4da8c1a160f1740bba8b1e852bf61241 Account B showing at BOINCstats 4da8c1a160f1740bba8b1e852bf61241 BOTH at BOINCstats, but still as is logical, a Benjamin Spock moment, unique CPID's recorded in 2 accounts at WCG.  I'm very happy about the way it's organized at WCG allowing members to maintain multiple crunching accounts contributing to different 'focus' teams for instance and still have their contributions roll up at the external BOINCstats places. I'll use my inside track to keep it this way if need be :D
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Jun 6, 2009 1:37:18 PM] |
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Maybe I haven't made myself sufficiently clear: even if World Community Grid didn't exist, using the CPID this way would still be wrong. The CPID is a hash, and while collisions are unlikely, they are perfectly possible. Moreover, the CPID was never designed to be used as a primary key - evidenced by the fact that there actually is an entirely independent primary key right there in the export table. CPID was developed by Janus Kristensen in April 2004, as "cross-project identification", to be used so BOINC stats-sites could correctly generate cross-project stats for users. At the time of development, he ran one of the BOINC stats-sites, http://www.boinc.dk Since he was running a stats-site, he knew the user.id was useless for tracking cross-project-stats. Since June 2004, he's also been running the BURP-project, http://burp.boinc.dk/  "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." [Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Jun 6, 2009 2:16:51 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Ingleside: missing the point.
Identifying users across projects is not the same as a primary key. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Change or timing, 1 of the 2 test accounts disappeared from BOINCstats, but continues to be showing with same CPID on a number of others. Some have charts that work, on others being offered a second WCG record causes the charts to bomb. Auto-reported to admin at StatsNStones
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WCG
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Anyone who is experiencing this issue with CPID, please choose which member account you want to have associated with the other BOINC projects. Change the email address of your other accounts and send us an email to the support email address (support@worldcommunitygrid.org). Let us know which accounts you want the CPID changed and we will change the CPID for those other accounts (make sure to mention that you want the email directed to Kevin Reed). This should resolve your issue.
Although we symphathize with the issue of having crunched data under two accounts, we do not merge accounts. I have multiple accounts and wished I had crunched under one the entire time I have participated. My ids are knreed, The Aspens, knreed1 (in particular I wish I had crunched the entire time under knreed). We have a history. We started with the UD agent which we used for a 1 year exclusively. We then switched to a hybrid where you could use either agent. This lasted for the next 3 years. This ended last year when we shut down the UD agent. The UD agent did not even require an email address. We had many duplicate email addresses as well. If we were going to integrate and start using BOINC, then we could not have the email address be unique. We discussed this with David Anderson and the developers at BOINC and they were fine with us removing the uniqueness requirement for the email address. We are not going to change this. There over 32,000 email addresses associated with more than 1 member name. |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Imho the main problem is the arrogance of WCG with their attitude "My way or the highway" towards everything else in the BOINC community. They don't care about standards, they don't care about the community, they just want to have the middleware for free and some crunchers along the way. I'm very sorry that you feel this way towards WCG. There are certainly some areas where we are not compatible with other parts of the BOINC community (the account management sites being the most significant). We have some limitations which prevent us from doing this. The changes required to change these limitations are unfortunately large which is why they haven't been addressed. As far as 'they just want to have the middleware for free and some crunchers along the way' that is way off base. Feel free to ask David Anderson which project has contributed the most code and features back to BOINC. Example, one of our key reasons for having our own install of the BOINC client is so that we can do two things (please note that we wrote some of the code to do this, and worked with BOINC on other parts): 1) Include a mechanism to have the agent, auto-attach to World Community Grid after installation 2) Include a skin for the simple gui (developed by WCG and contributed to BOINC) that has the branding for WCG included in the installer These features were deliberately implemented in a generic way that any project could re-use what we did. GridRepublic is finally using this and will have a similar installer based on the BOINC 6.8 client (obviously with their own branding). Another example, feel free to ask Janus Kristensen over at BURB as to whether he thinks WCG is a good partner and contributor to the BOINC community. I talked to him at the last BOINC conference about how we deal with credit here and how he can reduce his redundancy to two from three. I believe that he has done that and is using code that we contributed to BOINC in order to compute credit based on two computers results instead of three. He is also a user of the reliability feature (target high priority and additional replicas of workunits to computers that are reliable and return results quickly in order to finish workunits off quickly) that WCG contributed to BOINC. Also - if we were not interested in the community aspect of BOINC why did WCG fund me to travel to the BOINC conference a day early in order to present at a workshop intended to help people starting their own BOINC projects? See http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/WorkShop08 look for 'Customizing your BOINC server (Reed). Learn about server configurations options that can greatly increase your project's throughput.' There are certainly things that we do not do as well as we would like. There are certainly things that the members would like to see us change and do better. However, we have been good partners with BOINC and are interested in the success of BOINC overall - not just our particular corner. |
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Saenger
Advanced Cruncher Germany Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Post Count: 68 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Imho the main problem is the arrogance of WCG with their attitude "My way or the highway" towards everything else in the BOINC community. They don't care about standards, they don't care about the community, they just want to have the middleware for free and some crunchers along the way. I'm very sorry that you feel this way towards WCG. There are certainly some areas where we are not compatible with other parts of the BOINC community (the account management sites being the most significant). We have some limitations which prevent us from doing this. The changes required to change these limitations are unfortunately large which is why they haven't been addressed. After your comments I'm a bit less disappointed. Your answers are reasonable and informative, quite opposite to those of Sekerob and Didactylos who emanated pure disdain to all users outside this elite circle of pure humanity here. I still find it very disappointing that WCG doesn't fit in BOINC properly, especially in such imho vital ways as cross-project identities and account manager accessibility. This mess with accounts with the same email is something nobody outside WCG will understand, nobody would expect anything like it could split his cross-project identity. It's OK to keep it for UD-veterans, but imho you should at least put up some very big warning signs and one ore two "Do you really want to mess up your stats and cross project identity?" questions if you want to start a new account under the already taken email address. |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Thank you for that qualification Saenger and the arrogance assessment. Thumbs up, really, you're a gem.
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WCG
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Grow up, Saenger. Knreed's answer is identical to ours.
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Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher Norway Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Post Count: 974 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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We have a history. We started with the UD agent which we used for a 1 year exclusively. We then switched to a hybrid where you could use either agent. This lasted for the next 3 years. This ended last year when we shut down the UD agent. The UD agent did not even require an email address. We had many duplicate email addresses as well. If we were going to integrate and start using BOINC, then we could not have the email address be unique. We discussed this with David Anderson and the developers at BOINC and they were fine with us removing the uniqueness requirement for the email address. We are not going to change this. There over 32,000 email addresses associated with more than 1 member name. Ah, that's a lot of duplicates.  There's no way to fix the weaknesses introduced by the UD-agent, but now all new users is BOINC-only, I don't see any reasons for not changing things going forward, so new users signing-up now can't use an already taken email-address. WCG is already using code to check for "Is this name available", so would expect it's fairly easy to add "Is this email-address available" also. This change won't have anything to say for the 32k duplicates already present, but it will stop new users from running into problems with duplicated CPID in the future. Thanks for the explanation. "I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might." [Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Jun 8, 2009 7:09:40 PM] |
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