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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: Suggestions / Feedback
Thread: A short rant on the difference between teams and members |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 8
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
I think we would all agree that teams are made up of a bunch of individuals whether that group is composed of individuals running machines from their homes or from their businesses correct?
----------------------------------------With that premise wouldn't you consider it reasonable that the machines on a team come from different accounts? When I looked today and saw the top producer as a member I find this on that members page: Device Installations 20,231 The same as on the team of the same name. Now I'm all sorts of happy that this company has decided to help and have no issue as to them making any ungodly amount of points in their daily team scoring but to have 20,000+ machines on one member sort of says to the rest of us that all of our members should put their machines in just one account to even the playing field a bit. The only issue with that is that you remove the individualism of the contributions from each member. I don't see a solution but this just struck me as a bit unfair to all the individuals that contribute and also as a company taking advantage of the situation to make sure their name is always at the top.. End of short friendly rant.   |
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JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor Normandy - France Joined: Jan 26, 2007 Post Count: 3716 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Hi Movieman!
---------------------------------------- I think we would all agree that teams are made up of a bunch of individuals whether that group is composed of individuals running machines from their homes or from their businesses correct? No. You are forgetting all not individually affected machines (libraries, universities, etc..) and those which are participating without their affected "owner" being personally involved in grid computing (e.g. commercial or administrative entities). With that premise wouldn't you consider it reasonable that the machines on a team come from different accounts? "Conceptually" a minimum of two might be required, but what would that change? One machine would be affected to a different member id, et voilà! When I looked today and saw the top producer as a member I find this on that members page: Device Installations 20,231 Right. The same as on the team of the same name. Wrong. No total number of devices appears in WCG team stats. Some external stats sites show team totals which are mostly wrong for WCG because a high number of members have not unhidden their devices. For the team you are thinking of this total is 0 in BoincStats and should be same in other stats sites. Now I'm all sorts of happy that this company has decided to help and have no issue as to them making any ungodly amount of points in their daily team scoring but to have 20,000+ machines on one member sort of says to the rest of us that all of our members should put their machines in just one account to even the playing field a bit. 1. With the name they use it is not a company. It looks more like a charity sponsored by the company you are thinking of, but I am not informed enough about US rules and I may be wrong. 2. You know as most of us on our fora that the number of devices shown under a member id does not reflect a real number of machines at all. Which seems to be clearly the case here when comparing this number to those of other big members at the same level. 3. Some smaller members put all the machines of their contributing relatives and friends under their own member name, most often for convenience and efficiency reasons. That seems even more justified when the number of devices which might fall in oblivion is high, no? 4. WCG's purpose is not to organize the Olympic Games of Grid Computing, therefore the "rules" are oriented more towards efficiency than playing field fairness. The only issue with that is that you remove the individualism of the contributions from each member. For some, yes, for probably most others, no. For those in the "yes" category why not simply ignore the others who are probably not taking any particular pride of being at this level (do they even know they are?). If you were bringing goods with your own van to some devastated area would you be frustrated by seeing big road trains doing the same? I don't see a solution I don't see one either. but this just struck me as a bit unfair to all the individuals that contribute and also as a company taking advantage of the situation to make sure their name is always at the top. 1. The company you are thinking of would be much more efficient (if it were their purpose) by using their own name! 2. There is no publicity for top individual contributions at WCG, only the first five teams on some days (not always), so the name of the admin member id does not matter much. End of short friendly rant. End of as friendly answers. Let's keep crunching the best we can, each with what we have to offer. And thank you very much for your highly appreciated contribution. Jean. Edit: Changed "charity" to "charity sponsored by the company you are thinking of" ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by JmBoullier at May 9, 2009 6:58:17 AM] |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
Hi Movieman! [:)..snip~ Hi Jean.. Very good reply, in fact excellent. I guess what really bothered me is that having a member, not a team, show over 20,000 device instalations and pushing over 4 million points a day in that single "member" name might put some people off. Might make them feel that what they do is insignificant even though you and I know that that the person with the single computer is the backbone of any team or for that matter any project. I can't say I disagree with your logic and if you want to take this thread and toss it in the barrel please feel free. More than enough threads here, don't need this useless one adding to the pile.. Thanks for your imput. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hi all,
I get the point but i would not reccomend any change. At the moment i manage around 100 compagny desktops on the grid devided by group name into 3 user accounts. I possibly have another 600 pc's to be added. This wil be done by mass-installer, and it would be a pain to devide them manually into other user accounts. (this might still happen for me since i'm a bit crazy) Anyone with a large number of pc's to install will do this into 1 single useraccount if they are sane. As far as i'm concerned i'm happy with the current setup. If one is in the lucky position to be able to add 20k machines, i think they have the right to showup in the top-ranks, and maybe even on the main-page if they make the top-5. They earned it just like anyone else could do. if you want to be in that top-5 so badly, you might want to recrute harder :P |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
if you want to be in that top-5 so badly, you might want to recrute harder :P Or try what i'm attempting. Get the local school district involved. The one where I live anyway is so tech friendly, we have tons of computers. ~1000 at each of the 7 high schools, ~150 at each of the 12 Junior highs and ~100 at each of the 32 elementaries. (That's ~12,000 computers, all already upgraded or in the process of upgrading to dual cores  ) Your local district might not have so many, but most have enough to try for!I'm in talks with the district tech at the moment...but unfortunately for me it looks like they're going to make their own account instead of using mine... (if i can get them to go for it.)  |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
Hi all, I get the point but i would not reccomend any change. At the moment i manage around 100 compagny desktops on the grid devided by group name into 3 user accounts. I possibly have another 600 pc's to be added. This wil be done by mass-installer, and it would be a pain to devide them manually into other user accounts. (this might still happen for me since i'm a bit crazy) Anyone with a large number of pc's to install will do this into 1 single useraccount if they are sane. As far as i'm concerned i'm happy with the current setup. If one is in the lucky position to be able to add 20k machines, i think they have the right to showup in the top-ranks, and maybe even on the main-page if they make the top-5. They earned it just like anyone else could do. if you want to be in that top-5 so badly, you might want to recrute harder :P Unfortunately I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I have no issue in any amount of machines being on any team. I just thought it sent the wrong message to the individuals on this project that one company coulld toss 20,000 machines on one account and show that as if it were one member. That's all except I'd like to address your last mine. I'd be willing to bet you dollars to dimes that I've spent much more time recruting than you have. Ego? No..Just a guess that you haven't spent thousands of hours talking to people about the project, hundreds of hours walking them through BOINC installs and how to set up their preferences,etc.. Oh, last point; My team IS in that top five. Every day for over the last 2+ years and is #3 in the totals. We do put our money where our mouth is. Thanks for reading. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I'd be willing to bet you dollars to dimes that I've spent much more time recruting than you have. I'm sure you are right, since i only spent maybe 1 or 2 weeks to negotiate with the IT department here. Oh, last point; My team IS in that top five. Sorry if i offended you, but i didnt even bother to check your credentials out since i was talking more in general. I should have written "if one wants to be in the top-5 so badly...." instead of refering directly to you or your team. Point remains though that since i cannot find another way to set-up a better user system, i happy with the current one as it is. And if one is lucky enough to be able to donate such a high amount of CPU-time then yeah you deserve some focus. Compagny or private i dont care. Put the compagny name in your teamname and yes you are getting some free advert, but it's a positive one. If i was CEO of compagny-X i would be happy to see my name in focus as being a huge contributer. There are simple solutions thinkable to keep such teams\individuals out of focus, by setting a parameter to the minimum teammembers required before showing up in the top-5, limit the amount of devices possible per user account, etc.. but i doubt if it's fair. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at May 11, 2009 7:33:00 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Willem, Otis: you are doing it exactly the way World Community Grid expects you to. There is no limit to the number of devices you can have on a single account.
Yes, a few people might be slightly irritated that a single member can command an entire corporation's computers.... but they will get over it. I did! :-) |
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