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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

wow... that's a lot of gpu credits.. what's the difference between the gpu and wcg?
Dr. Mike..

Night and day.

The GPUGrid is very generous with their points. I'm getting about 4,500 points for a 7 hour WU. SETI was giving me about 1,200 points for a 50 hour wu. Haven't figured out what WGC, yet....


Dr. Mike. GPU means Graphic Processing Unit. That is the processor that is designed to take information from inside the computer and present it on the display so the user can see it.

CPU means Central Processing Unit. That is the traditional brain of the computer. When people talk about dual-core or Quad-Cores this is the unit that they are talking about. In some computers, the GPU is just added on the motherboard and shares main memory with the other components. The CPU then does most of the work associated with presenting information to the user.

Now some years back they started putting these Graphic Processing Units to work doing the display thereby releasing the CPU for the true computational tasks. Of particular note were the workstations and the gaming PCs. It was taking so much of the CPU's time just trying to keep the screen up to date that the overall applications, such as CAD or Games ran slowly. So the idea was to relieve the CPU of the duties associated with display and let it compute while the GPU took care of all the display issues.

This progressed over the years to deal with the shading and shadows and other nuances commonplace in the newer games and other applications to the point that the Graphic Processing Units have become very powerful and, because they are specialized processors (not having to deal with all the variety of tasks that the CPU has to deal with) they have become very fast.

Next came the idea of employing these specialized GPUs in other ways (other than just doing the display). Folks, as folks always will, figured out a way to use the GPUs to do other things. In this case, they have figured a way to use these GPUs to do crunching. Now we have the GPUs crunching work units. These processors have a limited instruction set that they run very fast (as was pioneered by something called RISC* processors some years back) and how well they compete with the Generalized CPUs (sometimes called CISC) in getting work done/cures found, I do not know.

There is a lot of disagreement between the various people involved with these alternatives. These GPUs are very fast, but are they efficiently employed to do crunching? I don't really know but I can tell you that "it depends" It depends on how good the programming is on the two different processor types, it depends on how applicable the problem is to the instruction set offered by the processor types and perhaps the biggest variable of all....It depends on who you are talking to. wink

My final point is about points. Points are points. You cannot pay your electric bill or buy Twinkies with them. They are an arbitrarily assigned number based on some measure of work done at some level independent of whether or not they actually progress to an ultimate goal. Like games; 100 points is one game are as hard to get as 100,000,000 are in another.

Are points comparable from one project to another? That is highly debatable. My considered opinion is: Not really. It is just like the two previously mentioned games. One project assigns points one way and another another and there is no real way to associate a point with the progress it represents towards a cure/solution but rather some measure of instructions executed (effective or not).

Now points are fun to tease with and banter about but they really do not do much of anything towards enlightening us relative to the true contribution we are making to find the cure(s)/solution(s). Like a college football game, it is fun to get passionate about it and all that, but the team with the most points does not tell you which is the best school or produces the "best" graduates, or charges the most tuition or almost any other important attribute about the school.

So CPU and GPU are types of processors that are employed to do all kinds of computing, including crunching.
WCG and SETI and many others (sometimes just called GPU- which is confusing to most people) are different organizations that provide facilities (servers, software and projects/Work Units) to crunch.

This note may be controversial and precipitate comment relative to the whole set of issues that I have raised. I hope it and any subsequent discussion helps clear up any confusion.

*RISC – Reduced Instruction Set Computer, CISC – Complex Instruction Set Computer.


That was quite erudite and exhaustive. But as far as points are concerned, they are more a personal motivator as competition against yourself, than useful to compare credits across projects.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at May 2, 2009 3:39:20 PM]
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NiceMedTexMD
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

RT, thanks tons for the brief history you gave me.. it helps a lot actually.. :) I know some about computers, but certainly a lot less than most of you..

Now when it comes to nuclear powered submarines and children with medical illnesses.. not talking

hope everyone is having a nice day.. kind of cool here in Missouri.. (cool for me anyways..)

Dr. Mike..
----------------------------------------

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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

Like a college football game, it is fun to get passionate about it and all that, but the team with the most points does not tell you which is the best school or produces the "best" graduates, or charges the most tuition or almost any other important attribute about the school.

You'd better be careful RT. In some Texas counties, saying such a thing is a hangin' offense. laughing
Now back to your regularly scheduled GPU discussion.

- D
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

RT, thanks tons for the brief history you gave me.. it helps a lot actually.. :) I know some about computers, but certainly a lot less than most of you..

Now when it comes to nuclear powered submarines and children with medical illnesses.. not talking

hope everyone is having a nice day.. kind of cool here in Missouri.. (cool for me anyways..)

Dr. Mike..


Doc, the latest issue of Consumer Reports covers desktops, laptops and support. It's not the be all end all source of info but it's good info to factor in to your buying decision.
----------------------------------------
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

Like a college football game, it is fun to get passionate about it and all that, but the team with the most points does not tell you which is the best school or produces the "best" graduates, or charges the most tuition or almost any other important attribute about the school.

You'd better be careful RT. In some Texas counties, saying such a thing is a hangin' offense. laughing
Now back to your regularly scheduled GPU discussion.

- D


I once worked for someone who was a graduate of one of those Texas colleges who seriously thought that because he was seeing a skunk on campus, it had to be a pet. It was wild. Need I say more?
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brown chris
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

wow... that's a lot of gpu credits.. what's the difference between the gpu and wcg?
Dr. Mike..

Night and day.

The GPUGrid is very generous with their points. I'm getting about 4,500 points for a 7 hour WU. SETI was giving me about 1,200 points for a 50 hour wu. Haven't figured out what WGC, yet....


Dr. Mike. GPU means Graphic Processing Unit. That is the processor that is designed to take information from inside the computer and present it on the display so the user can see it.

CPU means Central Processing Unit. That is the traditional brain of the computer. When people talk about dual-core or Quad-Cores this is the unit that they are talking about. In some computers, the GPU is just added on the motherboard and shares main memory with the other components. The CPU then does most of the work associated with presenting information to the user.

Now some years back they started putting these Graphic Processing Units to work doing the display thereby releasing the CPU for the true computational tasks. Of particular note were the workstations and the gaming PCs. It was taking so much of the CPU's time just trying to keep the screen up to date that the overall applications, such as CAD or Games ran slowly. So the idea was to relieve the CPU of the duties associated with display and let it compute while the GPU took care of all the display issues.

This progressed over the years to deal with the shading and shadows and other nuances commonplace in the newer games and other applications to the point that the Graphic Processing Units have become very powerful and, because they are specialized processors (not having to deal with all the variety of tasks that the CPU has to deal with) they have become very fast.

Next came the idea of employing these specialized GPUs in other ways (other than just doing the display). Folks, as folks always will, figured out a way to use the GPUs to do other things. In this case, they have figured a way to use these GPUs to do crunching. Now we have the GPUs crunching work units. These processors have a limited instruction set that they run very fast (as was pioneered by something called RISC* processors some years back) and how well they compete with the Generalized CPUs (sometimes called CISC) in getting work done/cures found, I do not know.

There is a lot of disagreement between the various people involved with these alternatives. These GPUs are very fast, but are they efficiently employed to do crunching? I don't really know but I can tell you that "it depends" It depends on how good the programming is on the two different processor types, it depends on how applicable the problem is to the instruction set offered by the processor types and perhaps the biggest variable of all....It depends on who you are talking to. wink

My final point is about points. Points are points. You cannot pay your electric bill or buy Twinkies with them. They are an arbitrarily assigned number based on some measure of work done at some level independent of whether or not they actually progress to an ultimate goal. Like games; 100 points is one game are as hard to get as 100,000,000 are in another.

Are points comparable from one project to another? That is highly debatable. My considered opinion is: Not really. It is just like the two previously mentioned games. One project assigns points one way and another another and there is no real way to associate a point with the progress it represents towards a cure/solution but rather some measure of instructions executed (effective or not).

Now points are fun to tease with and banter about but they really do not do much of anything towards enlightening us relative to the true contribution we are making to find the cure(s)/solution(s). Like a college football game, it is fun to get passionate about it and all that, but the team with the most points does not tell you which is the best school or produces the "best" graduates, or charges the most tuition or almost any other important attribute about the school.

So CPU and GPU are types of processors that are employed to do all kinds of computing, including crunching.
WCG and SETI and many others (sometimes just called GPU- which is confusing to most people) are different organizations that provide facilities (servers, software and projects/Work Units) to crunch.

This note may be controversial and precipitate comment relative to the whole set of issues that I have raised. I hope it and any subsequent discussion helps clear up any confusion.

*RISC – Reduced Instruction Set Computer, CISC – Complex Instruction Set Computer.


That was quite erudite and exhaustive. But as far as points are concerned, they are more a personal motivator as competition against yourself, than useful to compare credits across projects.


Well - I don't know what to say. Sorry I brought up points at all.
We don't to get see what they do with the massive amounts of computing power they get for free, so all we have is points.
I'll never mention it again...

Edit - Man, GPUGrid sure hands them out, though! cool

Edit Again - How are points a motivator against yourself, anyway? I think most people use points to compare themselves against other people. And it is useful to compare points across projects. I know that the points are worthless, but at the very least they can be used as a value of appreciation. That's the way I take it, anyway...
----------------------------------------
BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by brown chris at May 3, 2009 1:11:53 AM]
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Dataman
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile



Well - I don't know what to say. Sorry I brought up CREDITS at all.
We don't to get see what they do with the massive amounts of computing power they get for free, so all we have is CREDITS.
I'll never mention it again...

Edit - Man, GPUGrid sure hands them out, though! cool

Edit Again - How are CREDITS a motivator against yourself, anyway? I think most people use CREDITS to compare themselves against other people. And it is useful to compare CREDITS across projects. I know that the CREDITS are worthless, but at the very least they can be used as a value of appreciation. That's the way I take it, anyway...


I fixed that for you Chris. laughing biggrin laughing

Are CREDITS comparable from one project to another? That is highly debatable.


There is no informed debate. They are not comparable. Either from project to project or CPU to GPU. The project sets the multiplier for claimed vs. granted credits. I've crunched a bunch of projects and no two are the same. Also, how do you compare CPU work to GPU work with two totally different technologies? ... opinions vary ... and so do the credits.

Only WCG has POINTS!!!!! biggrin biggrin

***

Another quarter inch of rain today. Sure seems like February. cool
----------------------------------------


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brown chris
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile



Well - I don't know what to say. Sorry I brought up CREDITS at all.
We don't to get see what they do with the massive amounts of computing power they get for free, so all we have is CREDITS.
I'll never mention it again...

Edit - Man, GPUGrid sure hands them out, though! cool

Edit Again - How are CREDITS a motivator against yourself, anyway? I think most people use CREDITS to compare themselves against other people. And it is useful to compare CREDITS across projects. I know that the CREDITS are worthless, but at the very least they can be used as a value of appreciation. That's the way I take it, anyway...


I fixed that for you Chris. laughing biggrin laughing

Are CREDITS comparable from one project to another? That is highly debatable.


There is no informed debate. They are not comparable. Either from project to project or CPU to GPU. The project sets the multiplier for claimed vs. granted credits. I've crunched a bunch of projects and no two are the same. Also, how do you compare CPU work to GPU work with two totally different technologies? ... opinions vary ... and so do the credits.

Only WCG has POINTS!!!!! biggrin biggrin

***

Another quarter inch of rain today. Sure seems like February. cool


Thank you, Dataman - I stand humbly corrected.
----------------------------------------
BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
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brown chris
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile



Well - I don't know what to say. Sorry I brought up CREDITS at all.
We don't to get see what they do with the massive amounts of computing power they get for free, so all we have is CREDITS.
I'll never mention it again...

Edit - Man, GPUGrid sure hands them out, though! cool

Edit Again - How are CREDITS a motivator against yourself, anyway? I think most people use CREDITS to compare themselves against other people. And it is useful to compare CREDITS across projects. I know that the CREDITS are worthless, but at the very least they can be used as a value of appreciation. That's the way I take it, anyway...


I fixed that for you Chris. laughing biggrin laughing

Are CREDITS comparable from one project to another? That is highly debatable.


There is no informed debate. They are not comparable. Either from project to project or CPU to GPU. The project sets the multiplier for claimed vs. granted credits. I've crunched a bunch of projects and no two are the same. Also, how do you compare CPU work to GPU work with two totally different technologies? ... opinions vary ... and so do the credits.

Only WCG has POINTS!!!!! biggrin biggrin

***

Another quarter inch of rain today. Sure seems like February. cool


Thank you, Dataman - I stand humbly corrected.


As far as credit goes, I've been doing this a lot longer than the date on my tag. 2003-2004 is when it became popular, but grid computing was going on way before that. I read about WGC in 2004, and that's when I joined this project. But I know, the projects I was on before helped shape what we have now. The only thing I can do is feel good about that.
Of course, those credits just poofed away. But what the heck? It's all for a good cause.

*edited for profanity - CIH
----------------------------------------
BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at May 4, 2009 12:54:32 PM]
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brown chris
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Re: smilesmile Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 35 smilesmile

On another note, I bought some paint to color the calipers on my car. I didn't realize that this paint needed to be baked. 350F for 2 hours, and my kitchen smells like a paint shop now. Good thing I don't have a wife! LOL laughing
----------------------------------------
BIG BANG THEORY: In the beginning there was nothing... which exploded
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