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GIBA
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Re: GPU computing?

Just wondering if it will ever be feasible to get GPU computing going for WCG?


I'd be guessing that it'll be some time before it becomes feasible. If a few % of systems have new nVidia cards and a few % have new ATI cards, is it worth porting to them? How many machines are running the graphics cards needed for it to be worthwhile? Also, Boinc can run on any machine safely. What happens to system stability/usability if a GPU-based program goes wrong?


Sorry Kremmen but I disagree with you. There are many machines with nVidia and ATI ready to run WCG in GPU mode, just waiting for WCG put it in place.

It is feasible yes and just demand focus on and more efforts to be in the WCG priorities.

I can't imagine WCG just give up or ad eternum postpone jump into GPU world just due issues. We have issues in any environment in any situations in any aspects for any OS and any Hw.

GPU enviroments are more complex for programmers to put it in right ways for WCG.

Do not make sense postpone the pursuing of GPU environment as one of near future priorities of WCG once thousand crunchers could use it and improve a lot the results of projects.

I can predict that million people will have GPU availables in yours new machines from this year on. It is a fact. Almost all new graphic card today have powerfull or small GPU featured inside.

Think about it. wink
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by GIBA at Dec 27, 2008 4:09:05 PM]
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Re: GPU computing?

Do not make sense postpone the pursuing of GPU environment as one of near future priorities of WCG once thousand crunchers could use it and improve a lot the results of projects.


The important question is what proportion of machines actually have GPUs which can be used. Just because you have one doesn't mean that everyone does. Don't forget that it's not just older machines that don't, but huge, headless multi-processor servers. Unless/until a huge proportion of crunchers have such GPUs, it simply won't be worth the programmers' time to code for a minority of the population, especially when GPU coding is highly specialised and likely to be much more time-consuming than coding for the CPU. I would hope that the first thing WCG would do before embarking on such a venture would be to work out what proportion of the population of machines are even capable of running GPU progams.

No doubt there are lots of machines on WCG just sitting crunching in their spare time for months/years continuously. They are not necessarily running current operating systems (let alone current video cards). Let's take CUDA for example: It's only for WinXP onwards (no 2000 or Server 2003 support). I can't find anything which says it's been backported to 2.4 Linux kernels. How do you think WCG should handle that? Have multiple versions of the same project running at once for different releases of the same architecture?

Look how long it takes them to get a project running across just Windows and Linux and Macs right now. I believe you're looking at increasing that effort by an order of magnitude for an unknown return.
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widdershins
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Re: GPU computing?

I think that there a few issues to consider. Firstly the effort to reward ratio, if it would take a large amount of time to port a project to GPU processing and the project is expected to only have a short run time without it, say 1yr -18 months it probably wouldn't be worth the additional effort to port it to GPU.

Secondly the type of calculations being done, if only a small benefit can be gained for a project because the type of calculations aren't suited to GPU processing, then it also probably wouldn't be worth the effort.

However, if a project is suited to GPU processing then once a normal version is out for windows, linux, and mac it would make sense to release a GPU version also. Though the percentages of clients able to run it may be small, if it increases the crunching of those computers by 10-20 times it will only take a small percentage of such machines to make a significant increase in results per day.

By the time any WCG project is GPU ready there will also be far more users capable of using it. New machines invariably come with more powerful GPU's as standard due to the progress of technology, and everyone replaces their PC eventually.
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JmBoullier
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Re: GPU computing?

One important thing to remember about offering GPU versions of the applications is that it is not WCG people who program the applications, it is the scientists. WCG must accept and be ready to support GPU versions in addition to the others but they will not produce GPU enabled versions themselves.

WCG is interested in trying GPU versions and one of the current projects is interested in programming a GPU version. So there will probably be such a version in a currently-unpredictable number of months.

So let's just wait. Jean.
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GIBA
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Re: GPU computing?

One important thing to remember about offering GPU versions of the applications is that it is not WCG people who program the applications, it is the scientists. WCG must accept and be ready to support GPU versions in addition to the others but they will not produce GPU enabled versions themselves.

WCG is interested in trying GPU versions and one of the current projects is interested in programming a GPU version. So there will probably be such a version in a currently-unpredictable number of months.

So let's just wait. Jean.


Jean,
by far it was the most good new about GPU that I read until now here in WCG. I'm inside the group that are waiting for biggrin Thank you.
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Join BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID team and be very happy !
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Zanth
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Re: GPU computing?

Just adding that I too am eagerly awaiting the day a GPU project is available on WCG. :) I have both ATI and nVidia cards ready to go. :)
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Nick-MMX
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Re: GPU computing?

If a project for GPU computing were to come out would it be an optional only so you have to click a button to join it? Some people have their settings set to join all new projects. what if they were using onboard chipset graphics? it might inhibit processing rather than increasing productivity.

anyways im all for another badge tongue
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Re: GPU computing?

If a project for GPU computing were to come out would it be an optional only so you have to click a button to join it? Some people have their settings set to join all new projects. what if they were using onboard chipset graphics? it might inhibit processing rather than increasing productivity.

anyways im all for another badge tongue


Just some thoughts not necessarily in priority order ...

* The current BOINC Manager has some serious issues with regard to GPU computing. These involve the Resource Share model and work fetch policies that derive from that model.

* Heavy use of of the GPU can cause overheating in a system not properly set up. GPU use by a game is different than GPU use by BOINC.

* There are a few models of GPU cards that are usable as GPUs, however not all of them are suitable for all projects and this is unlikely to be properly addressed for some time (see above) for multiple GPU systems (where the GPUs are not matched and identical)

* SLI does not look to be supported at this time in that the GPU computing will only use the first GPU of SLI linked GPUs (I have not validated this, so cannot confirm).

* My GTX 280 preforms one GPU Grid task in about 4 to 6 hours (depending, they vary) The 9800 GT takes about 10-17 hours ... up to as long as 90 (not sure why I had the outliers but the tasks did validate).

* automatically "opting-in" of people could cause the project to damage a participant's computer. This is one case where the opt rule should be a manual choice.

* IN that so few projects use GPUs at this time it is unclear if BOINC Manager, even when fixed will properly manage these resources ... especially in a mixed environment (like if I put the 9800 GT back into the system that already has the GTX 280 like I had it before ... or if I buy a couple 9800's because I can get them for a lot less money ...
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Former Member
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Re: GPU computing?

If a project for GPU computing were to come out would it be an optional only so you have to click a button to join it? Some people have their settings set to join all new projects. what if they were using onboard chipset graphics? it might inhibit processing rather than increasing productivity.

anyways im all for another badge tongue

There's still that wonderful option to remain opted out to be automatically opted in for new projects. That option was ticked for those with all projects when it was implemented.
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Ironworker16
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Re: GPU computing?

I have been looking for a Boinc project that supports ATI graphics cards. I see talk about NVIDIA’s CUDA on a couple projects sites, but no ATI cards.

I know the Lattice project is planning a GPU-accelerated version of GARLI for sometime in the future, but that probably would not support ATI cards when it starts maybe sometime down the road.

But it can be done, Folding@Home which is not a Boinc project has versions of software for ATI and NVIDIA graphics cards and a version for the PS3. I'm using my HD4850 graphics card for a Folding@Home project while I'm running my Boinc projects on my computer, if there was a Boinc project that would make use of my card I would use it there.
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