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Sekerob
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Think MM means that the specific "Nahelem" CPU is not allowed to be visible and though the device is hidden, the particular CPU as a none-person related item would and why would it be kept a secret if it would disappear in for instance a pool of e.g. X9650's of which there are 254 showing? If there is a very exclusive chip with any of the team members and not visible in that BOINCstat table, then you're right.

Hiding devices is an option on any BOINC project which is where the WCG option came from, but that's old news smile
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MAB The Frisian
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

@ MM : What is W2K8 ? A vista version ?

As for the OS : I just ordered XP Pro 64

Hope it will make a difference wink


Reading the following posts Ubuntu seems interesting too.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by MAB The Frisian at Oct 18, 2008 8:00:51 AM]
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Rickjb
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Something that hasn't been mentioned here is that the 64-bit version of BOINC runs its benchmarks in 64-bit mode, and the integer benchmark runs MUCH faster than in 32-bit BOINC. Because they are based on your BOINC benchmarks, Points Claimed will be higher with 64-bit, even though the science app is 32-bit and may run no faster. On projects where Points Awarded is influenced by Points Claimed, 64-bit will generate you more points. After the introduction of zero-redundancy to FAAH and DDDT, the only remaining WCG project where Pts Claimed has a large influence on Pts Awarded is, surprise, surprise, HCC. In the Rice project, one inflated Claim will have only a small influence on the average of the first 10 results on which a WU's pts are awarded. I think that with FAAH and DDDT, Pts Claimed now has no influence on Pts Awarded. And HPF2?

I note that on W2k on a dual-core system that spends very little CPU time on apps other than WCG, one calendar day results in some hours less than 48 of WCG CPU time. Other OSes, especially 64-bit ones, could reduce this gap and result in higher WU throughput.

If XP-64 gave an increase in WU throughput of, say, 5% over XP-32, especially on FAAH and DDDT, I would probably upgrade from XP-32. MovieMan, do you think the difference on these projects would be that great?

BTW, A downside of 64-bit Windows is that in the Explorer, the right-click menu will run only 64-bit applications, not 32-bit ones, eg virus scanners, media players, editors, ... Also, some device drivers may be unavailable, eg there is no XP-64 driver for my TV tuner card.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Rickjb at Oct 17, 2008 4:00:32 PM]
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Movieman
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Sek and or Jean;
Any chance that you guys could check with the folks at BOINC and IBM and confirm that if my machines are set to hidden( and they are) that the boinc page that shows points per second that I linked to earlier will not get any info from my "NDA" machine?
That would be greatly appreciated as I really want to get this beast up and working on the project but am locked into keeping the numbers from going public.
If you can confirm then I can talk to the powers that be and get an OK and we'll get some more work done.
Thanks guys!

Rickjb
I don't think that a 64 bit OS does one bit more work than a 32 bit OS.
It just claims higher.
The app that does the work is 32 bit so that should answer all.
I do wish that the app was 64 bit but thats been argued over and over.
Some day maybe it will happen..
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Movieman at Oct 17, 2008 6:42:53 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

MM, consider the request passed on. Until then, maybe you can hack the client_state.xml and other BOINC parts so it shows something else?
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Movieman
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

MM, consider the request passed on. Until then, maybe you can hack the client_state.xml and other BOINC parts so it shows something else?

Me? Moi? Hack? Haven't done that since I got into the third level of the FBI when I first started playing with PC's.. laughing
I wouldn't even know where to start.. Pure hardware guy here..
But if you want to send a "how-to" Tedi and I assume WCG has my email addy.. wink
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Sekerob
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Here's 3 lines from the client_state.xml

<p_vendor>GenuineIntel</p_vendor>
<p_model>Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5600 @ 1.835GHz [x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6]</p_model>
<p_features>fpu tsc pae nx sse sse2 mmx</p_features>

Take a Q6600, plug in something else and see what happens and surely your team has a few, that do have software tuning skills. Think to have read somewhere how it's done for BOINC.
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darth_vader
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

For what it's worth, I can add a data point here. I had a machine, 2.0 GHz Pentium M, that was running W2K and was migrated to WinXP. WUs took about the same amount of CPU, as expected, but I saw slightly longer elapsed times -- about an extra 30 seconds per hour of CPU time, more or less, for WUs running overnight when there was little or no other activity.

Some of the difference was due to other processes taking more CPU time which might be understandable, but the biggest difference was an increase in the System Idle Process time even with Boinc set for 100% CPU. Keep in mind that we are only talking about 10 minutes or less of CPU time per day, so it isn't much.

- D
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JmBoullier
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Movieman,
Regarding your NDA are you sure that it is not so strict that even WCG techs should not see your proc's performance? Because even if the techs can guarantee that these figures cannot reach BoincStats it is obvious that they would be able to find them in the servers if they want. Not meaning that they would do it and even less that they would misuse them, but seen from the other side of the NDA it is probably the ability which matters, not the real facts.

Regarding what you say about 64-bit OS throughput
I don't think that a 64 bit OS does one bit more work than a 32 bit OS.
It just claims higher.
it may be true for projects which are essentially crunching floating point numbers, but it is clearly wrong for HCC which, I presume, must have a higher share of its crunching on integer numbers. I have compared two sets of HCC results under XP32 and Ubuntu 64 in the same machine and the outcome leaves no doubt, particularly since HCC units size is very homogeneous over time and then you can consider that they are all "containing" about the same amount of work. The average claims are about the same, 62.44 for Ub64 and 65.37 for XP32. But the average durations are 2.90 hours for Ub64 and 3.73 hours for XP32.
Maybe this is not true for all 64-bit processors, but it is for this Q6600.

Cheers. Jean.
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Movieman
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Re: Which OS delivers the highest average ?

Movieman,
Regarding your NDA are you sure that it is not so strict that even WCG techs should not see your proc's performance? Because even if the techs can guarantee that these figures cannot reach BoincStats it is obvious that they would be able to find them in the servers if they want. Not meaning that they would do it and even less that they would misuse them, but seen from the other side of the NDA it is probably the ability which matters, not the real facts.

Regarding what you say about 64-bit OS throughput
I don't think that a 64 bit OS does one bit more work than a 32 bit OS.
It just claims higher.
it may be true for projects which are essentially crunching floating point numbers, but it is clearly wrong for HCC which, I presume, must have a higher share of its crunching on integer numbers. I have compared two sets of HCC results under XP32 and Ubuntu 64 in the same machine and the outcome leaves no doubt, particularly since HCC units size is very homogeneous over time and then you can consider that they are all "containing" about the same amount of work. The average claims are about the same, 62.44 for Ub64 and 65.37 for XP32. But the average durations are 2.90 hours for Ub64 and 3.73 hours for XP32.
Maybe this is not true for all 64-bit processors, but it is for this Q6600.

Cheers. Jean.

Hi Jean,
Yea, I see what you mean about the WCG techs and although I have no fear that someone would go in,grab the info, then post it in 24 bold font that "Here's Movieman's Nehalem" it leaves a possibility and just that possibility would be seen as a reason for them to tell me no to running the app.

I can't comment on Linux, honestly never used it.
An old dog here and new tricks if you know that expression.. wink
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